Eliminator w/Cummins Diesel
 

We had alot of good talking on here about the Eliminator with the Cummins in it. They had their first test runs and then went to the boat show. I thought there was going to be more testing, etc, etc, etc - what happened that was a great project???

I hope just another diesel project down the tubes.......

Joe Gere

I believe the numbers were less than [email protected] testing was to be done...but until the diesels can get even close to the BB's numbers, the gas motors will be the choice. I went through this on my 43 Nor-Tech which is 3' longer than the Eliminator and 4k more pounds..we achieved 74mph, and that was very good for what it was..I just wanted 80mph...Jeff

paging shueman

how is a 43' nor-tech 3' longer than a 43' scarab/eliminator?

I heard that the eliminator is back at the factory getting the X demension raised.

The boat is 44'8" plus the Aluminum swim platform. So ..close to 47'...Also if I remember reading the 43 Scarabs were just under 43'..so that's how I came up with a round about 3' additional feet. Jeff

Wonder how fast it would've been with a pair of T-58s:drink:

Haul all your girl friends at once!
 

Here is nice diesel cat we contracted. Just shows what kinda rooster tail you can get from a pair of 1400hp Cats:drink:

http://www.ishigaki-dream.co.jp/video/PREMIUM.wmv

Maybe i missed it....but there wasnt a roost. That boat would make an awesome private yacht.

You know....thats an acceptable number IMO. They knew, going into this, that it wasnt going to be a 90mph rig. Im sure it can cruise all day at 55-60 mph w/o stressing a thing. Yes its more $$$ than gas motors that will duplicate the performance, but your paying for equipement that will last a lot longer.

True That!!!
 

It's about 75 feet behind the boat. Your right about it making a good private yacht though between the two decks theres more square footage than some peoples houses.:drink:

If I remember reading in that thread they were looking for 80mph, just like we were...I'm sure in their later testing the numbers improved, especially since the boat is 3500-4000 lighter. I personally love the diesel boats, just not the top end along with a few other items that need to be worked out on all diesel boats in rough seas. Jeff

The problem is 1) most people don't keep go fast boats long enough for diesels to be worth the considerable upcharge and 2) multispeed transmissions are almost necessary for getting diesels on plane and higher speeds but again $$$$$.

Gale Banks has a 550hp Duramax in water testing now and he is developing a 650-700hp race diesel. These motors fit right in where a BBC goes so rigging is very simplified compared to the Yanmar inline 6 cylinders that most builders have to use.

Jassman,

You know my feelings on 80's - no problem getting there. Someone either has to do what I say to do and go against "what others think and say" or I need to get enough money to show you all how it's done - otherwise the boats won't get there.

I'm very interested in what you mean by "a few other items that need to be worked out on all diesel boats in rough seas"? Can you please expand on this for me?

Joe Gere

OK I'm listening. Could you explain this a little more for me. I am in the process of setting up two diesel outboard boats and want to try a new set up.

Thanks
Don

I would be interested in this too.

Thanks

Call my cell 732-718-2711 after 9 am est because your projects interest the hell out of me!!!!

I am tied up between 9 and 11 today. Would it be ok to call around lunch?

thanks
Don

Nor-Tech done quite a few diesel programs, so has Hustler....What you have mention on many threads has yet to be proven, otherwise the manufactures including Buzzi ould have done them. As to the other items,,,#1 in a rough sea, there really is no throttling, all computor generated and can be a big PITA. playing catch up #2 getting on plane..again computor controlled..#3 you better have the correct motor mounts to control vibration of any of those larger (440hp) and on up. These are just a few quirks.

Jassman,

What I talk about is not unproven? It was done for many years and I was along side Buzzi in the boat teaching me and my guys!!! I was at the old Buzzi shop, have parts in my house still have Buzzi drives, etc, etc, etc. I had Ebel at my disposal to run and test and play with everyday, not once in awhile but everyday. We kept Ebel on our private marine railway (like a lift) in Morgan NJ so we could launch and retrive her anytime we wanted. The guy with those Aquadrive CV shafts who is now with Mack Boring (Yanmar distributor) has a poster in Mack Boring of me in the Gancia bilge.

Funny Reggie Fountain story. Back in 1994 or 1995? Reggie made a walk around fishboat with a Merc 7.3L diesel sterndrive package in it and as is the norm the boat was slow, much slower than he wanted. Reggie had me come down to the plant give them all kinds of advise on how to make this boat faster - did they take it - NO!!! They tried nothing because it didn't make sense to them so they removed the diesel installed a gas engine and sold the boat.

Just because other people don't do it doesn't mean it's not viable or hasn't been done with success by others. I've talked to Hustler lierally 20 years ago, they were stuck in the America way of doing things period.

The peeve has always been boat builders don't want to build a boat and spend $300,000 and if it doesn't work they can't sell it. If they have to re-rig it with different engines and drives to sell it then they just put more in a boat then it could ever be worth. They would have been better off just crushing it and walking away. Many boat companies do not build boats that they ultimately can't sell if it's flop.

The only person who I can truely say was open to ideas, listened, watched and took time out to come ride on the diesels was Craig Barrie (I have great respect for him). His early Cigarette diesel projcts with Merlins were not what he hoped for. He was so impressed by us that there was a deal to do Hawk Diesel power in the early 90's. Many factors killed it but none of them were the product itself or the performance. I still have the letter from Hawk sealed and post marked, they faxed me a copy before hand so I never open the orginal and today I have the sealed one for sake of "what could have been".

As for throttleing despite was T2X says with the old mechanical diesels there was alot of throttling. Not the kind you did with gas but throttleing to keep boost up. I can see your point with electronics that throttleing could all but disapppear? But if you try to throttle a diesel boat like a gas boat nothing happens except you loose boost and it falls on it's face.

Everyone on here that was around in the late 80's and early 90's remembers the Buzzi boats running in Key West and AC in really rough water. Did they not blast by the American gas powered boats in the rough? If diesels weren't good in the rough that would ahve never happened. Again, there is a trick to running them and you got to get gasoline engines out of the brain to do it, what don't know does electronics make this impossible?

Getting on plane, I would have thought the electronics would have made that much better than the mechanicals as we used to be able to load them with so much fuel that they would just bog down, start smoking like it was on fire and drop to idle.


Don, anytime is good today or tomorrow or at night before 11 pm.

Joe Gere

As to the throttling, that's exact.

As to getting on plane..taking that few seconds to have the computor react is what bothered me.

You just need to build a boat or get someone who has endless funds/money so you can work you're magic.:grinser010:

28 apache with twin diesels. I'll bet you it worked just fine. Lots to be said about florida builders.

Jeff,

One day we will meet and beers on me, I think you and I could talk for hours!!!!

I'll tell you what, you help me fund the drink company and I'll be able to buy you and I diesel boats!!! LOL

Tex - just because it's an Apache doesn't mean it worked fine!!!! if they built a diesel boat it's because the customer wanted it not because Apache thought it was right. As a tender on a mega yacht it makes sense as ou can refuel from your mains. I've talked with Bob, Mark and Jack about diesels so many years ago. I remember Jack putting his arm around me at a race once when we were still green about diesels and saying, "you don't give up do you, I think you'll make it work someday".

Joe Gere

It's not the puter. With the common rail sytems the fuel is there before you can even think it. The lag is in the air catching up to the fuel :drink:

Correct. Same problem in truck engines which is why the aftermarket has developed twin turbo systems.

From what I have seen as far as planning a turbo diesel in a performance application, it usally the lack of boost, big pitch props and tall gear ratios that make the boats slow to plane. the nice think about the arnesons is how easy it is to put a vent pipe on.