sunseeker xs2000
12-20-2008, 05:22 PM
#21
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yanmar power to weight is good but if i had an open cheque book i would be running v8 petrol,our petrol prices are not good and neither is diesel but they are economical.in the same yard as me theres a 42 fountain poker run with 525,s and a 388 hustler whith the same yanmars both very different but both very good
12-20-2008, 05:35 PM
#22
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xs
theres a few nice cats over here but not realy any classes to race them in anymore here,another boat at the same yard is a teckno 40 buzzi rib with 2x seateks its not pretty kinda looks like a propper smuggling boat yet some how you just have to love it
12-21-2008, 12:21 PM
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this one I think is the really really ugly version
Pics from Littlenige's Offshore Library Boatmad.com
and this is Joe showing us Europeans how it's done in Ebel a much better looking version although it may not be quite as practical as a day boat/sun pad
12-21-2008, 01:55 PM
#24
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OK, show time, a little history lesson or two here.
First here are 2 letters to Kitami and Andrea Bonomi (Carlo's son) about where we should be heading with some engine developement outside of Seatek. Simple reasoning here, we could make marinized truck diesels much cheaper than using the Seatek's which are low volume engines with no basic parts available anywhere in the world except the Seatek plant.
Look at the 2 addresses for what I call Super Hero still Morgan, NJ and HI. Keep in mind these letters are 19 years old and almost everything in there still holds ture today execept for the UIM rules which have changed.
This is why I keep saying on here that this stuff was done soooo many years ago and just because a boat builder today doesn't do it, won't try it or says it won't work just means to me - they have other reasons why they don't want to do it!!!!
The 3rd picture is Super Hero (EBEL) running off Miami in 1990 - now that's the way a rooster tail should look - low and long not high and short!!!!
You will see two different tails in the picture, that is the for each prop as we are running beam sea so as she rolls from side to side each prop is getting a different bite.
First here are 2 letters to Kitami and Andrea Bonomi (Carlo's son) about where we should be heading with some engine developement outside of Seatek. Simple reasoning here, we could make marinized truck diesels much cheaper than using the Seatek's which are low volume engines with no basic parts available anywhere in the world except the Seatek plant.
Look at the 2 addresses for what I call Super Hero still Morgan, NJ and HI. Keep in mind these letters are 19 years old and almost everything in there still holds ture today execept for the UIM rules which have changed.
This is why I keep saying on here that this stuff was done soooo many years ago and just because a boat builder today doesn't do it, won't try it or says it won't work just means to me - they have other reasons why they don't want to do it!!!!
The 3rd picture is Super Hero (EBEL) running off Miami in 1990 - now that's the way a rooster tail should look - low and long not high and short!!!!
You will see two different tails in the picture, that is the for each prop as we are running beam sea so as she rolls from side to side each prop is getting a different bite.
12-21-2008, 02:14 PM
#25
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Next,
1st pic - is two of the old small cui Seateks stuffed in EBEL, there were 600hp in their best day (LOL) and with a .83 or .85 OD the boat ran 92 mph all day long if the chine walk didn't kill you first. Someone asked about 2 speeds being on these boats, there were no such things as 2 speeds at that time. We were playing with that stuff and it worked in development boats but no production versions had been made.
2nd picture - is the old pre-trimax drives, these were Buzzi drives and they were the best, except like like rudder steer drives they don't turn. It was impossible to turn this boat without using the engines. We also never ran hydraulic steering until later on, it was a dual rack and pinion cable set-up. I agree with Buzzi on this 100%, he was right, you never to feel and steer the boat, can't do that with hydraulic. This also made it vert hard to spin out the boat as you just weren't strong enough to turn the wheel that far that fast!!!
Another thing you'll notice is the trim tabs, they are extra long and have a angled rear section. Also note how high on the hull they are mounted. Simple reason, you could run a little tab to control chine walk and not drag the whole tab just the last few inches and that gave you stability.
ps yes the early drives have no trim at all, it was locked in place and stayed there.
3dr pic - this tells the whole story on why diesels in the US went NO WHERE!!!!! On a chilly day you needed a can of ether each to start those Seateks and the smoke was choking!!!!! Even on a warm day they started with a cloud, much smaller but a gas engine has zero smoke. You all know how un-burned diesel smells as well. This killed diesels more than anything. I can't tell you how many times the Fire Dept came to our shop in Morgan, NJ. On a cold day we called them first to let them know we were starting a "race boat".
Also, in the picture for you historians that want to see the Buzzi 4 engine cat, she's in the foreground. Look how low she sits and water is actually over the boat in the center section. o you see all the watertight deck access plates??? That's so when she idled and the wake/wash rolled all up on the deck and when it went to get up on plane the water did sink the boat because the back of that boat was cover with water!!!!!
Enjoy,
Joe Gere
1st pic - is two of the old small cui Seateks stuffed in EBEL, there were 600hp in their best day (LOL) and with a .83 or .85 OD the boat ran 92 mph all day long if the chine walk didn't kill you first. Someone asked about 2 speeds being on these boats, there were no such things as 2 speeds at that time. We were playing with that stuff and it worked in development boats but no production versions had been made.
2nd picture - is the old pre-trimax drives, these were Buzzi drives and they were the best, except like like rudder steer drives they don't turn. It was impossible to turn this boat without using the engines. We also never ran hydraulic steering until later on, it was a dual rack and pinion cable set-up. I agree with Buzzi on this 100%, he was right, you never to feel and steer the boat, can't do that with hydraulic. This also made it vert hard to spin out the boat as you just weren't strong enough to turn the wheel that far that fast!!!
Another thing you'll notice is the trim tabs, they are extra long and have a angled rear section. Also note how high on the hull they are mounted. Simple reason, you could run a little tab to control chine walk and not drag the whole tab just the last few inches and that gave you stability.
ps yes the early drives have no trim at all, it was locked in place and stayed there.
3dr pic - this tells the whole story on why diesels in the US went NO WHERE!!!!! On a chilly day you needed a can of ether each to start those Seateks and the smoke was choking!!!!! Even on a warm day they started with a cloud, much smaller but a gas engine has zero smoke. You all know how un-burned diesel smells as well. This killed diesels more than anything. I can't tell you how many times the Fire Dept came to our shop in Morgan, NJ. On a cold day we called them first to let them know we were starting a "race boat".
Also, in the picture for you historians that want to see the Buzzi 4 engine cat, she's in the foreground. Look how low she sits and water is actually over the boat in the center section. o you see all the watertight deck access plates??? That's so when she idled and the wake/wash rolled all up on the deck and when it went to get up on plane the water did sink the boat because the back of that boat was cover with water!!!!!
Enjoy,
Joe Gere
12-21-2008, 02:45 PM
#28
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Great pics ,love those old raceboat/diesel info too,Joe did they use the Isotta Fraschini ID 38 SS 6V twin turbo diesel engines back then in the US ?
I have one of these sitting on a pallet ,and like to crank her up to 800+ HP and put her in a 28 ft boat and see what happens .
On an old video from Apache I saw an engine room with 3 of these Isotta,s ,but I could never find any more info about that boat...
A.J
I have one of these sitting on a pallet ,and like to crank her up to 800+ HP and put her in a 28 ft boat and see what happens .
On an old video from Apache I saw an engine room with 3 of these Isotta,s ,but I could never find any more info about that boat...
A.J
12-21-2008, 03:02 PM
#29
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scotty - EBEL was like yours but not the same from what I can see, I'm sure yours was born from it though?
stirling - there were lots of Isottas back then racing and the French engines as well, blue and yellow were the company colrs, I think it was like Boud??????
Pleasure versions of Isottas, I've seen them here not many, I believe Johnson & Towers here in NJ had a deal to import them? I know there was a 38 Luhrs express fisherman built with them as a test bed. I beleive it ran like hell but I thought it really drank fuel also. Plus people buy Detroit Diesel for anything in a fishboat above the 3208 in HP. (years ago)
stirling - there were lots of Isottas back then racing and the French engines as well, blue and yellow were the company colrs, I think it was like Boud??????
Pleasure versions of Isottas, I've seen them here not many, I believe Johnson & Towers here in NJ had a deal to import them? I know there was a 38 Luhrs express fisherman built with them as a test bed. I beleive it ran like hell but I thought it really drank fuel also. Plus people buy Detroit Diesel for anything in a fishboat above the 3208 in HP. (years ago)
12-21-2008, 03:35 PM
#30
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The engines you mentioned from France are Boudoin ,there was a 50 ft French Marine powerboat here with Arnesons and V12 twin turbo Boudoins ,I don,t no about horsepower,but those V12,s looked mean as hell.
The Isotta ID 38,s are 450 hp in pleasure,just like mine ,A guy in the UK that had raced with a CUV with those ID 38,s said he had them up to 850 hp back then in 1988,without internal engine mods ,he said bigger turbo,s pump settings, injectors(tips) and a few minor other things....
The ID 38 is around 720 kilo (1500 lbs) and turns 3150 rpm,s max, 9,7 litre V6 and the air flows reverse thru the engine ,the exhaust runs where normally the intake sits and the intake air comes in where normaly the exhaust is.
each turbo has its own intercooler (water to air)
Although the engines are old (1986) I still like to use it someday
Oh I forgot ,the engine uses 180 litre /hour at 850 hp according the info they gave me .
The Isotta ID 38,s are 450 hp in pleasure,just like mine ,A guy in the UK that had raced with a CUV with those ID 38,s said he had them up to 850 hp back then in 1988,without internal engine mods ,he said bigger turbo,s pump settings, injectors(tips) and a few minor other things....
The ID 38 is around 720 kilo (1500 lbs) and turns 3150 rpm,s max, 9,7 litre V6 and the air flows reverse thru the engine ,the exhaust runs where normally the intake sits and the intake air comes in where normaly the exhaust is.
each turbo has its own intercooler (water to air)
Although the engines are old (1986) I still like to use it someday
Oh I forgot ,the engine uses 180 litre /hour at 850 hp according the info they gave me .
Last edited by stirling; 12-21-2008 at 03:38 PM.
