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Splashing Hulls: Right or Wrong?

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Old 03-21-2002, 05:56 PM
  #211
BK
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More of your same harrassing crap, LF.

Guess it makes you feel big to put other people down.

Just call the number below, and ask for Gene Willen.

Howard Custom Boats
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Old 03-21-2002, 07:24 PM
  #212
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OK, lets get this thread back on track...


Quote:
Originally posted by BK
A splash is theft. No grey areas. It's theft.

Splashing is "greasing up" a boat that is already popular, and COPYING it. this is not "Eyeballing" a design, this is direct molding. Taking a hull to use as a plug, greasing it up, "splashing" it with fiberglass, and creating an exact copy from it. Inch for Inch the boat they create will be a copy of the plug they used.
Ok, I agree fully with the above statement. Splashing is pretty cut and dried. But what about the grey area of using a exiting hull and then making SIGNIFICANT changes to it? Right or wrong?

BTW-I don't consider a new top deck to be a "significant change".
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Old 03-21-2002, 09:39 PM
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LF, Barney, whoever else,
First and formost, be careful whom you call junior, unless your truely that much of an old fart. Don't start with the petty childish remarks on a message board..., considering that you now have no clue, nor justification, I hardly believe my grammer is your main focus.
Now that we have that out of the way, you continue to point fingers about the MODVP design and the Mirage Trinity. If your so up to date on your specs, I have pictures of the 20SST that you say the 22 SST was stretched from, and of course pictures of the bottom of our 22 Trinity, if I must, I guess I can put these up on this post to show you how far off you are. Nextly, you continue to voice your opinion, and have not checked your facts...did you give Alan a call? Perhaps an eamil? I didn't think so. Ya know, since we all know that the Magazines do not promote the splashers, you need to take a look at this article right here: http://free.hotboat.net/tests/docs/M...22_Trinity.htm

What I find most amusing, is that I had to work all day long, and I see that between David and Barney, right after I post something they are already on there computer attacking it, I love knowing I have that power over someone, to keep them on their feet like that. What's sad is you have now drug Stoker into something they never had anything to do with in the first place-Splashing. I guess some people do get there kicks from dragging others down huh?
P.S. since your all about correcting my grammer and spelling, I am guessing respnsibility= responsibility?? Nebver=Never?? Come on ya old fart, keep up with the young blood
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Old 03-21-2002, 10:23 PM
  #214
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Cord wrote:
Quote:
Ok, I agree fully with the above statement. Splashing is pretty cut and dried. But what about the grey area of using a exiting hull and then making SIGNIFICANT changes to it? Right or wrong?

BTW-I don't consider a new top deck to be a "significant change".
Hi Cord,

There are some people who are adamant that nothing should be taken - no part of the design what-so-ever. They feel that to keep marine building competition on a fair, highly competitive level, all companies should design from blueprints with their own tooling and research. And I can see the point. A plug from blueprints can take years to perfect and cost a company hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But others tend to let that slide a little - they may be annoyed, but not insensed if a plug of theirs is used and changed -- with the understanding that at least the company has put some effort and actually have done some work (real work, not a cosmetic strake or line here and there) but actual changes. I'm with you -changed decks do not count. That's a common camouflage. The hull is what makes the boat.

I probably fall into that second category. We've recently had a new company use the hull of our boat to create a new boat. the imprint of our hull bottom is ditto, although lowered a bit -- and the rest of the boat has been changed significantly. If the final result is a substantially different boat, and you can tell they've put a lot of work into the tooling, then it really doesnt bother me that much.

But what I get irked about is the fact that at least 2 companies have recently bragged about duplicating very popular, highly marketable designs. These people are feeding off the success of the compaines they've splashed, and they know it. By not hiding the origin, they can sell it as their "cheaper version". It was easy money or they wouldn't have bothered.

Some have even gone so far as to use the actual photos and name of the original company to give themselves a marketing boost. Sometimes they are seen posting their boats for sale under the ORIGINAL company for-sale pages. At fairly close range, the splashes are indistiguishable from the original. And I'm not just talking about Mirage designs. Other top hi-perf companies are being ripped-off like this too.

IMO, there's nothing right about that at all.
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Old 03-21-2002, 11:30 PM
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Cool Still going and going and going,

and crying and crying because someone bought a mold of a 1st generation Mirage with wide slow ass running surfaces,no steps and no class then changed about everything you can change to where there is different compression,ventilation to the point that the newest Mirage is chasing it along with a number of other mod vp's totaly is ruining your life BK.
It doesn't look like a Mirage.What about Mercury cowlings,to make aftermarket cowls off of a factory part then sell them?
What about generic medicine,should they not make it?Get real and Get Well soon
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Old 03-22-2002, 12:07 AM
  #216
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Wrong - Drug patents are vehemently protected.
Generics can only be made long after the drug company has recouped their costs, years later.

Now I'm curious just what it is you are talking about -- Almost seems like you are you talking about the 150hp class? Are you aware that our hulls were built for 200hp and won many National and World championships? That class is now defunct, and we hadn't built a circle boat in over 8 years. We spent most of the 1990's building top end drag/lake racer boats, which are frequently in the winners circle.

But if we ever did make a boat for a circle class that attains 80mph max, we would definitely cut down the air packing quality that the current 100+ ModVP hull has in it. Similar to what your friend in your story did. The only Mirage's I've seen run in this class were all built for 200hp. Maybe the new owner of Mirage is working on a hull for this class? Who knows.

Now if you think this bothers me that Mirage isn't winning this class, you are absolutley mistaken. That entire class has less than 10 boats in the entire country. Only ONE is a Mirage. And I dont know what kind of power he has. Yamaha?

I was always baffled why you joined Liqui-Fly in attacking Mirage Boats? Was it because of my opinion on splashing that you chose to target an assault on Mirage? I dont know you at all, but I understand you are a lobster fisherman? That certainly did make me wonder what stake you had in this splashing situation.

Do you have a friend who builds boats for the new 150hp class called Supersport? Perhaps built from a copy of a Mirage? Is that what has you riled?

Now -- Do you honestly think I'm concerned at all with those?

Surprise!! I'm not.

That class is hurting for fresh boats. There's very little money in OPC race boat building and that's why we declined to join in designing one. But more power to those who do.

I'm not involved with Mirage any more, at all. You aren't hurting me by lashing out at Mirage, you are hurting the people who bought the company.

My opinions on splashing are purely my compassion for ANY company who works hard to create a genuine product and name for themselves the right way, just to have a&*$#les that take that design away from them, and then tag themselves as "boat builders".

Last edited by BK; 03-22-2002 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 03-22-2002, 12:31 AM
  #217
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Question Skippy

You didn't have anything to say about the Cowlings but you jumped on the generic drugs.You said there where two companys building boats that irked you,Just 2? You want to act like you see things from a broad view but you seem to narrow things down to the same point,coping what you don't have anymore.
What co. is it that has made to exact bottom and calling it theres.I have many trades that I work at and I do them all well,I am not a lobster fisherman but I do comm.shrimp during the season.Is a Shrimp a pop off of a lobster and down sized,damn I just live in a splash world.But seriously,There are aftermarket everything's,electrical parts,car body parts and etc.Why not boats?
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Old 03-22-2002, 12:31 AM
  #218
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Default Hey Mod Thanks

For pointing out my typos and to think I baited you with "grammer". I guess I gave you too much credit. If you still don't get it grab a dictionary. Thanks for the HotBoat link. What better way to hide a 65 mph porpoise problem. Send it underpowered so it only runs 62. Now here's my link:
http://free.hotboat.net/tests/docs/H...26_Cat_498.htm

2nd paragraph...can you tell me what it says?

As far as instant responses. Well you see you get a little e-mail thingy that tells you someone replied like magic. I can manage a few things at one time. You guys should also stop doling out people's phone numbers like you do; that has to get annoying for non participating parties. Fight your own battles.

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Old 03-22-2002, 12:35 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally posted by BK But others tend to let that slide a little - they may be annoyed, but not insensed if a plug of theirs is used and changed -- with the understanding that at least the company has put some effort and actually have done some work (real work, not a cosmetic strake or line here and there) but actual changes. I'm with you -changed decks do not count. That's a common camouflage. The hull is what makes the boat.

I probably fall into that second category. We've recently had a new company use the hull of our boat to create a new boat. the imprint of our hull bottom is ditto, although lowered a bit -- and the rest of the boat has been changed significantly. If the final result is a substantially different boat, and you can tell they've put a lot of work into the tooling, then it really doesnt bother me that much.

Ok, I agree with you again. I guess that I was trying to see where my current boat (a Firehawk) falls into this whole mess. Some people like to say that it's a splash of a American Offshore. While even the owner of the company openly admits to starting with the AO, the hulls designer can point out major differences between the two hulls. To me that doesn't make the Firehawk a splash.
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Old 03-22-2002, 12:42 AM
  #220
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What are you trying to prove, LF?

Howard (Gene Willen) certainly did have 23' foot Mod-VP molds. Can't recall if they were actually what he'd call a part of his production line but he did own these molds. Howard bought them from Warlock.

Tell me -- why didn't you just phone him instead of continuing on with your BS?
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