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Old 01-09-2009, 12:51 AM
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Sales of megayachts slow as millionaires scale down conspicuous consumption

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business...7.story?page=1
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:49 AM
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Ray

I understand your post but reality is some things have gotten WAY, WAY, WAY overpriced in today's market and China/Taiwan/India is the way to go for cheap labor.

Here in FL:

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White guys do not cut grass/landscape but they hire Mexicans/Guatamalans/etc.  The industry was almost all white or black 20-30 years ago.  White/black Americans won't work for those rates (minimum wage). 
Big 3 automakers have the same issue with the same workers in the USA. Honda/Toyota/Nissan won't pay the insane benefits/ labor rates the UAW demands for its workers so they hire non-UAW Americans to build their cars. Those same benefits tack higher prices onto the Big 3's cars/trucks making them less competitive in the market (in addition to other issues).

Houses are not constructed by white males anymore here in FL. In comparison I visited Leavenworth, KS a few months back and was shocked to see a jobsite bustling with all white guys driving all American trucks! Construction in FL is staffed by the smarter Mexicans/Guatamalans that are too bright to cut grass/trees. White guys are supervisors/management and only the poor white trash drug addicts will still be swinging hammers.

Boats are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. They break constantly and are a luxury item that fewer people can afford. Look at the engineering that goes into a new Corvette for 45K then look at what you get for a 45K boat! The boat will be tiny, slow and won't run anywhere near as good or as long as the Corvette. My diesel GMC has 5900 hours on it, 130K miles and has only had a water pump, one set of batteries, 2 sets of tires and fluid/filter changes. I have spent less on maintainence on this truck than what a 100 hour service alone would cost on bigger twin 4 stroke outboards!

Luxury Yachts cost more than most people's homes and being made in China only puts them in reach of more buyers and at the end of the day the boat is going to just depreciate anyway so why not reduce the depreciation from the start with a lower price. All the components are outsourced anyway so whether you buy a 100 ft Hatteras or 100 ft. Hargrave they will still have the same power/ electronics/ etc.

Performance boats are already made overseas. Cigarette was bragging about how great Turkey was for its new 55 yacht. Do you think a 38 TG is far behind? It is fiberglass with fancy paint and everyone else's components rigged together. Does seem out of place that the American Legend isn't made in America but think of all the money Skip could save building boats overseas..........
I have owned a landscaping business since 1986.It has been 10 years since I hired a white guy, the last 4 were smoking Crack, 2 while at work.Untill the currency is changed to Crack,Crank or Crystal Meth I wont hire another one.As far as hispanics working for min. wage my guys make between 35k-60K.But they work their Ass off and show up to work every Day SOBER!
Sad but True reality.I am not saying this is true about ALL white or black laborers, it seems that Drugs have screwed up alot of the Good American Workers.

Last edited by offshoresteve; 01-09-2009 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:03 AM
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Yes, I insure quite a few landscapers and I have heard the same problem with white workers. It's really too bad! Who knows, there may be more white workers on the horizon that will take that job (sober).

Devin
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:10 AM
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Yes, I insure quite a few landscapers and I have heard the same problem with white workers. It's really too bad! Who knows, there may be more white workers on the horizon that will take that job (sober).

Devin
www.wozencraftinsurance.com
I hope your right ,It would be nice to speak English all day to my workers. I talk Spanglish so much I catch myself doing it when I am not at work.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:51 AM
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I hope your right ,It would be nice to speak English all day to my workers. I talk Spanglish so much I catch myself doing it when I am not at work.
Now that's funny!

Devin

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Old 01-09-2009, 12:01 PM
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Wink What is Value in Pricing??

We all know that producing the AVERAGE JOE's performance boat and engines has gotten very expensive and in our past overheated (financing crazy) economy and a lot of people and companies may have been a little to greedy in their pricing.
I can feel very good about Raylar and our products and innovation and offerings in that philosophy as a company has always been to give our customers more reliable bang for their hard earned bucks! and deliver our products at prices for engines and parts that the AVERAGE JOE can afford!
There are other manufacturers and builders who have really moved forward to offer boats , engines and hardware at pricing levels that are truly value priced when you look at what you are getting for the dollar. Sunsation with their SS series, Dana with their affordable header systems and hardware, and I am sure their are many others in our fine industry who bear out my contentions.
Lets also face the fact that boats and engines and hardware are expensive to develop and manufacture with the real quality and utmost reliability that marine performance users MUST HAVE !!
Its an obvious condition that as economic difficulties rise it makes affordability more difficult but just searching for short term cheap alternatives is not the right direction.
Raylar for one has no intention of going offshore and killing American jobs in any effort to lower the quality and value that our fine products represent just so we can sell more in a down economy. Raylar will look for effective ways to shop for better pricing on our domestic materials and production costs here in the USA and Canada and if it can result in us in keeping a GREAT product at a lower cost to our customers we will. We will howerver not jeprodize the products quality and VALUE just to make it CHEAPER!

AS for those companies in our industry that continue to use market share and dominance to artifically keep their products prices at sometimes over inflated levels they will suffer dearly and the most in the next few years as most value driven boating consumers will be a lot more careful how they spend their shrinking disposable dollars !!

Necessity is the Mother of Invention and this new performance boating market will probably make some positive changes in what the buyer receive on average.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:36 PM
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Being in the shipbuilding business, US shipyards can't compete.

Tricon Completes Shipyard in China
Thursday, January 08, 2009 Tricon Marine, a builder of FRP/Composite luxury yachts up to 180 ft long, has completed construction of China’s first and only North American-owned and operated shipyard. Yachts currently under construction have been moved to the new facility, including Tricon’s next launch, a 92 ft long-range offshore performance motoryacht commissioned by an undisclosed Tricon client. The launch will be unveiled during the official shipyard opening ceremony in the spring of 2009.

“With most segments in the shipbuilding industry contracting and consumers demanding greater value, our timing in offering a solution that addresses these needs and establishes a competitive offering couldn’t be better,” said Christos Livadas, Chairman and CEO, Tricon Marine. “We intend to put China on the map as a place for world-class yacht construction as never before. Tricon Marine is committed to strictly adhering to client specifications and contractual obligations while offering unmatched craftsmanship at a price that sets a new value standard in the industry.”

Dave Adams, Vice President of Tricon Marine, added, “Ironically, the birth of Tricon Marine comes at a time when it makes the most sense, especially in this worldwide economy. We are offering the industry a great solution to the pricing-versus-quality challenge that has often been talked about in the yachting business. Clients today want to know that they are getting the best value for their money inch by inch. Consumers are scrutinizing their lifestyle investments more than ever after some of the major financial mishaps of 2008.”

Located just outside the city of Zhuhai in China’s Guangdong province (an easy ferry ride to Hong Kong and Macau), Tricon’s half-million square foot complex is designed to operate at American and European standards of craftsmanship, cleanliness and security. In order to underscore its commitment to producing the finest boats at true value pricing, Tricon Marine will limit build-slots to a maximum of three yachts in simultaneous production for the next few years so that no detail is overlooked.

The yard will be the largest for composite yacht construction in China with a production capability of 16 yachts indoors and in-water work on two additional yachts up to 180 ft in length at its pier. The company can complete up to $60m in work per year depending on the size of the yachts under construction.

Tricon’s management team has more than 75 years of combined industry experience with recognized names such as WestBay and Ocean Alexander. Prior to founding Tricon, its principals also commissioned and supervised the construction of 14 yachts using Chinese builders since the beginning of this decade.

Tricon’s currently has 120 Western-trained employees and expects to grow its skilled labor pool to 210 workers over the next 18 months. It carefully selects workers and craftspeople, most of whom have experience at other shipyards in the area and a minimum of five years of active work in the yacht-building trade.

(www.triconmarine.com)
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:22 PM
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I stopped reading Here:

"Christos Livadas, Chairman and CEO, Tricon Marine. “We intend to put China on the map as a place for world-class yacht construction as never before."
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:57 PM
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I have owned a landscaping business since 1986.It has been 10 years since I hired a white guy, the last 4 were smoking Crack, 2 while at work.Untill the currency is changed to Crack,Crank or Crystal Meth I wont hire another one.As far as hispanics working for min. wage my guys make between 35k-60K.But they work their Ass off and show up to work every Day SOBER!
Sad but True reality.I am not saying this is true about ALL white or black laborers, it seems that Drugs have screwed up alot of the Good American Workers.
I own a decent sized home building business and believe it or not I have about 6 black employees and 4 white employees that work as supers. No Messicans as we have found them to be unreliable. One guy is a former 10 year prison parolee (drug dealer) and is friggen huge. We always joke with the homeowners and tell them that if they have a complaint they have to give it to him. I have found that the Mexicants do absolutely shoddy work compared to the Americans. They truly don't give a chit about you or your customers.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation View Post
Ray

I understand your post but reality is some things have gotten WAY, WAY, WAY overpriced in today's market and China/Taiwan/India is the way to go for cheap labor.

Here in FL:

White guys do not cut grass/landscape but they hire Mexicans/Guatamalans/etc. The industry was almost all white or black 20-30 years ago. White/black Americans won't work for those rates (minimum wage).

Big 3 automakers have the same issue with the same workers in the USA. Honda/Toyota/Nissan won't pay the insane benefits/ labor rates the UAW demands for its workers so they hire non-UAW Americans to build their cars. Those same benefits tack higher prices onto the Big 3's cars/trucks making them less competitive in the market (in addition to other issues).

Houses are not constructed by white males anymore here in FL. In comparison I visited Leavenworth, KS a few months back and was shocked to see a jobsite bustling with all white guys driving all American trucks! Construction in FL is staffed by the smarter Mexicans/Guatamalans that are too bright to cut grass/trees. White guys are supervisors/management and only the poor white trash drug addicts will still be swinging hammers.

Boats are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. They break constantly and are a luxury item that fewer people can afford. Look at the engineering that goes into a new Corvette for 45K then look at what you get for a 45K boat! The boat will be tiny, slow and won't run anywhere near as good or as long as the Corvette. My diesel GMC has 5900 hours on it, 130K miles and has only had a water pump, one set of batteries, 2 sets of tires and fluid/filter changes. I have spent less on maintainence on this truck than what a 100 hour service alone would cost on bigger twin 4 stroke outboards!

Luxury Yachts cost more than most people's homes and being made in China only puts them in reach of more buyers and at the end of the day the boat is going to just depreciate anyway so why not reduce the depreciation from the start with a lower price. All the components are outsourced anyway so whether you buy a 100 ft Hatteras or 100 ft. Hargrave they will still have the same power/ electronics/ etc.

Performance boats are already made overseas. Cigarette was bragging about how great Turkey was for its new 55 yacht. Do you think a 38 TG is far behind? It is fiberglass with fancy paint and everyone else's components rigged together. Does seem out of place that the American Legend isn't made in America but think of all the money Skip could save building boats overseas..........
You couldn’t have said it any better.

The bottom line is that there is an invisible hand that will push the manufacturing of any product and or service to where ever it needs to go depending on what the price the consumer will pay for it. Being in the consumer product industry I would love to never have to go to China three to four times a year but 95% of Americans don’t care where there food storage containers are made much less who makes there house. There is little to no value add in where something is made geographically.

Take a step back and look how the majority of the consumers in the US shop on a normal basis – do they shop by where something is made or the numbers after the dollar sign?
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