lets see the diesel boats
01-22-2009, 07:51 PM
#31
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well Joe, I have to tell you a funny story.... you weren't by yourself on the blacklist,,, follow along here.. 
fall of '89 I was quietly seeking a pair of 6BTA 250's for the first 35 Contender built, which was mine, Cummins Marine in Fla refused to sell me engines as they were just released, and the factory had a deal with Boston Whaler and Blackfin for the first 4 engines for the upcoming Miami Show.... Contender wanted the boat in the show and I was real tight with Joe Neber at the time... so I went to Cummins Cumberland, since I was born in Louisville, and had DIRECT family connections there.... got 2 engines for cash and brought them to Miami myself, had them installed and the boat running the week before the show... no testing time using the ZF 1.23 gears, so we were propped wrong.... luck have it we were 2 slips over from Whaler and BlackFin on the front bulkhead wall of the Marriott, I had Cummins banners on the dock posts.... boy were they pissed when they showed up, and they walked right on the boat and demanded to see the serial numbers.... I had removed the data plates from both front gear housings ahead of time, turned the Lucas governors to 3200 rpm full load and turned the fuel up to 140cc from 127cc they came with (Lucas pumps didn't like that) frickin boat ran 47 mph on the governor's and we were still short by 5" of pitch using 22's instead of the needed 27's.... for 5 days straight we would wait until they left the docks and I would run right by them WOT giving demo rides, I know we took some sales from them.... I ended up selling the boat for cash at that show because of that... every night they took down the banners we had, and every day we put up new banners we had as extra's... Cummins went berserk when I told them I paid for the engines and I felt I could damn well do as I pleased with them, which I did, the head guy from Rocky Mount threatened a cease and desist order right on the dock, but it was a weekend... they couldn't do squat... They were LIVID... The Blackfin peep's were cool but the Whaler people were off the wall pissed off... couple weeks later and after about 60 hours the pumps started to loose the cam rings and rollers and spit metal into the Lucas injectors ( I did NOT shim the injectors ) so I took DB4 Standyne pumps for a John Deere (think 436DT tractor pull engines) and used Bosch injectors and aneroid boxes and mounted them using the same fuel lines as a 6BT industrial engine, reshimmed the rotor shoe scroll leafs for more pumping plunger travel, and modified the drive gear opening, same housing pilot and bolt circle right?.... the engines ran perfectly, and made even more power, especially when I went to .005-.010 valve lash instead of .010-.020.... Cummins then got word and got nice with me, and I built them 4 test mule DB4 experimental Stanadyne pumps and shipped them to Rocky Mount for testing in late 1990, Stanadyne was courting their business at the time, heard what I was doing, so I helped that along with Stanadyne factory support, the engines ran 2,000 non-stop dyno hours perfectly.... Cummins was beside themselves, as they made 295-300hp with the Standyne pumps I built... shortly after, in 1991, they came out with the Denso EP11 and EP9 retrofit kit instead, killed the Lucas marine program, and started using the controlled fuel 7mm injectors with the DB4 Standyne pumps on AG and industrial engines... my stock 250's were about 290hp at the 140cc settings and 270-275 at the 127cc settings, Cummins then lowered the settings to 112cc-115cc to make the Lucas pumps live until they were out of warranty and they only made 210hp continouus... I could do all this because I was a factory authorized Lucas-Bosch-Standyne-Denso fuel shop at the time and still am.. not that I know anything about diesel fuel systems
... I also have a 3306 CAT re-rate/engineering funny story, but we'll save that for another time..
and there you have the rest of the story...
fall of '89 I was quietly seeking a pair of 6BTA 250's for the first 35 Contender built, which was mine, Cummins Marine in Fla refused to sell me engines as they were just released, and the factory had a deal with Boston Whaler and Blackfin for the first 4 engines for the upcoming Miami Show.... Contender wanted the boat in the show and I was real tight with Joe Neber at the time... so I went to Cummins Cumberland, since I was born in Louisville, and had DIRECT family connections there.... got 2 engines for cash and brought them to Miami myself, had them installed and the boat running the week before the show... no testing time using the ZF 1.23 gears, so we were propped wrong.... luck have it we were 2 slips over from Whaler and BlackFin on the front bulkhead wall of the Marriott, I had Cummins banners on the dock posts.... boy were they pissed when they showed up, and they walked right on the boat and demanded to see the serial numbers.... I had removed the data plates from both front gear housings ahead of time, turned the Lucas governors to 3200 rpm full load and turned the fuel up to 140cc from 127cc they came with (Lucas pumps didn't like that) frickin boat ran 47 mph on the governor's and we were still short by 5" of pitch using 22's instead of the needed 27's.... for 5 days straight we would wait until they left the docks and I would run right by them WOT giving demo rides, I know we took some sales from them.... I ended up selling the boat for cash at that show because of that... every night they took down the banners we had, and every day we put up new banners we had as extra's... Cummins went berserk when I told them I paid for the engines and I felt I could damn well do as I pleased with them, which I did, the head guy from Rocky Mount threatened a cease and desist order right on the dock, but it was a weekend... they couldn't do squat... They were LIVID... The Blackfin peep's were cool but the Whaler people were off the wall pissed off... couple weeks later and after about 60 hours the pumps started to loose the cam rings and rollers and spit metal into the Lucas injectors ( I did NOT shim the injectors ) so I took DB4 Standyne pumps for a John Deere (think 436DT tractor pull engines) and used Bosch injectors and aneroid boxes and mounted them using the same fuel lines as a 6BT industrial engine, reshimmed the rotor shoe scroll leafs for more pumping plunger travel, and modified the drive gear opening, same housing pilot and bolt circle right?
.... the engines ran perfectly, and made even more power, especially when I went to .005-.010 valve lash instead of .010-.020.... Cummins then got word and got nice with me, and I built them 4 test mule DB4 experimental Stanadyne pumps and shipped them to Rocky Mount for testing in late 1990, Stanadyne was courting their business at the time, heard what I was doing, so I helped that along with Stanadyne factory support, the engines ran 2,000 non-stop dyno hours perfectly.... Cummins was beside themselves, as they made 295-300hp with the Standyne pumps I built... shortly after, in 1991, they came out with the Denso EP11 and EP9 retrofit kit instead, killed the Lucas marine program, and started using the controlled fuel 7mm injectors with the DB4 Standyne pumps on AG and industrial engines... my stock 250's were about 290hp at the 140cc settings and 270-275 at the 127cc settings, Cummins then lowered the settings to 112cc-115cc to make the Lucas pumps live until they were out of warranty and they only made 210hp continouus... I could do all this because I was a factory authorized Lucas-Bosch-Standyne-Denso fuel shop at the time and still am.. not that I know anything about diesel fuel systems ... I also have a 3306 CAT re-rate/engineering funny story, but we'll save that for another time..and there you have the rest of the story...
01-22-2009, 11:12 PM
#32
Registered
OH the joys of Cummins!!!
You had to know Jim Shipp then or meet him at the show? After running the Marine Group they set him up as the Distributor Principle at Cummins Metropower. He just finished his 15 years there (seems like yesterday) and Metro now merged with Philly all the way up to Boston. It's funny, Cummins was company stores, then all private and now they are going to super distributors with so little equity they are like the managers of the old company stores.
Did you ever meet Karl Kunner (last name maybe spelled a little off)? Everyone always joked he had to have been a U-boat commander in a past life.
DB pumps are great pumps, we used the 8's on the 6.9 and 7.3 as you know.
Aneroid, wow must be close to 29 years since I heard anyone esle use that phrase - you must be an old bastard like ME!!! I remember early engines where they were mounted external to the fuel pump!!!
I get a kick out of your remarks about 1.23 gears and 47 mph. With the extra pitch you could break 50 mph, take it to direct drive and you 70's - the math plays out. Still don't know why people on here question that to go fast with diesels you need prop speed just like any gas boat would.
Let's hope I make some money soon and build another boat!!!
You had to know Jim Shipp then or meet him at the show? After running the Marine Group they set him up as the Distributor Principle at Cummins Metropower. He just finished his 15 years there (seems like yesterday) and Metro now merged with Philly all the way up to Boston. It's funny, Cummins was company stores, then all private and now they are going to super distributors with so little equity they are like the managers of the old company stores.
Did you ever meet Karl Kunner (last name maybe spelled a little off)? Everyone always joked he had to have been a U-boat commander in a past life.
DB pumps are great pumps, we used the 8's on the 6.9 and 7.3 as you know.
Aneroid, wow must be close to 29 years since I heard anyone esle use that phrase - you must be an old bastard like ME!!! I remember early engines where they were mounted external to the fuel pump!!!
I get a kick out of your remarks about 1.23 gears and 47 mph. With the extra pitch you could break 50 mph, take it to direct drive and you 70's - the math plays out. Still don't know why people on here question that to go fast with diesels you need prop speed just like any gas boat would.
Let's hope I make some money soon and build another boat!!!
Last edited by HabanaJoe; 01-28-2009 at 07:18 PM.
01-28-2009, 05:23 PM
#36
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01-28-2009, 05:46 PM
#37
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01-28-2009, 07:10 PM
#38
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bor,
Your boat have a purple interior and a 6-pak cockpit, I swear I've seen that boat here in NJ at the Atlantic Highlands?
Your boat have a purple interior and a 6-pak cockpit, I swear I've seen that boat here in NJ at the Atlantic Highlands?
Last edited by HabanaJoe; 01-28-2009 at 07:17 PM.
01-28-2009, 07:24 PM
#39
Adib's boat it sweet. Ofcourse it helps that he takes great care of it. We just tested a set of the long skeg arneson's on it, but the boat didn't seem to like them. he should have some new props to try here soon, so I quess we shall see how it runs.
01-29-2009, 12:08 AM
#40
habanajoe,
your on the right track ,I saw it on ebay and contact the owner it was located in farmingdale,nj .
and had a gray and purple six man bolster seat in it .
I make a normal interior in it whit 2 mc leod bolsters and a bench at the back ,next year I will take care of the cabin wich is complete empty.
Firefox,
I just have the 320 because the came along on my pad for a price I can"t refuse they are brand new in the original crates with all wiring harness and gauges .
And there is the option to chip tune them to 386hp .
tblrklakemo,
I bought it last summer in nj whit no power but with 2 new bravo gimbals and drives ,she had 2 600hp bleu engnes in it but the gas price here is about $8 a gallon so I wanted diesel power and found a couple in england for a steal,
I have take everything of the transom and install it whit new seals and repainted the engine room after I custom made the mount bases for the engines .
also replaced the floor for some decent plywood instead of the balsa 10mm that was in and make some reinforcement underneed to mount the mc leods .
also relocate the bulkhead for more room in the cockpit and a heavier one and everything completly laminated whit fiberglass instead of only the outside 10" contact places .
so far for now ,I have to relocate my steering wheel and do the dash.
your on the right track ,I saw it on ebay and contact the owner it was located in farmingdale,nj .
and had a gray and purple six man bolster seat in it .
I make a normal interior in it whit 2 mc leod bolsters and a bench at the back ,next year I will take care of the cabin wich is complete empty.
Firefox,
I just have the 320 because the came along on my pad for a price I can"t refuse they are brand new in the original crates with all wiring harness and gauges .
And there is the option to chip tune them to 386hp .
tblrklakemo,
I bought it last summer in nj whit no power but with 2 new bravo gimbals and drives ,she had 2 600hp bleu engnes in it but the gas price here is about $8 a gallon so I wanted diesel power and found a couple in england for a steal,
I have take everything of the transom and install it whit new seals and repainted the engine room after I custom made the mount bases for the engines .
also replaced the floor for some decent plywood instead of the balsa 10mm that was in and make some reinforcement underneed to mount the mc leods .
also relocate the bulkhead for more room in the cockpit and a heavier one and everything completly laminated whit fiberglass instead of only the outside 10" contact places .
so far for now ,I have to relocate my steering wheel and do the dash.
