UN-REAL accident footage...
02-04-2009, 01:00 PM
#51
OSO OG
Gold Member
Just my thoughts, but I think the main underlying point, is that no matter the brand, 100mph boats aren't for just "anyone"......but today just "anyone" can get one. They are even easier to get right now, because the factories or brokers will do even more to move some boats. Going 100mph as you know back in the day, had to be earned. It took major exotic power with short rebuild interval's, IF they even ran THAT long. It took an owner that wanted to deal with that issue, and usually an owner that had at least SOME mechanical knowledge, and almost always at least some prior HP experience. Now a guy can go 100+ with basic power that lasts for hundreds of hours, and not know where the dipstick is the entire time. 
The biggest reason it seems to be more frequent, is purely because of the internet. There have been equally as many spins, pitches, rolls, etc with other high performance brands. EVERYONE hears about the Cigarettes though, even when there aren't Cigarettes involved! Showing a video to the average person and dubbing it a "Cigarette boat" makes it much easier for the nonboater to relate to whether it actually is or not.
If it's a common problem with Cigarette alone, how can the THOUSANDS of other stepped Cigarette's around the world that aren't flipping over be explained? I'd have to assume the majority of them aren't operated by professional drivers, or even drivers with the most basic high performance boating experience? Taking that into account, I'd bet the overwhelming majority haven't taken the Tres Martin course, or have experienced any other program designed to teach proper technique? I'd be more willing to buy into the product liability theory if there were incidents like this, or even close calls, happening to all or the majority of the boats in circulation.
I never had an issue with my twin step, and I promise I drove it aggressively. Of the MANY friends, and acquaintances that own or have owned stepped Cigarettes, only one took a swim. He's also been wet in two previous boats that were NOT Cigarettes, but had stepped hulls. Coincidentally, his swim was nearly identical to the video in this thread, and the yellow one Rik has posted before. My buddy IMMEDIATELY, and to this day, admits driver error was the cause. The boat was BRAND NEW.....and he was cutting the sticks in the middle of a steep turn, it caused the hull to slide, then catch, shifting the total weight to the outside, and inevitably pitching him and the passengers out. The boat circled, then ran ashore thankfully not doing serious damage to the HUGE marina just down the cove.
The Chang/Stinson swim WAS indeed one of the first TS boats, which also means the technique needed to properly operate them was a very new concept as well. It doesn't matter who it was since even the most seasoned boaters had to change what they've known for decades to adjust correctly. Stinson AND Chang grew up driving high performance boats of all kinds, but stepping into something that is the polar opposite of previous Cigarette or Apache flat bottom boats, takes a learning curve for anyone. Couple that with a race environment and different handling characteristics, and more room is there for error.
No matter the brand, I just dont' think it's accurate to always point the blame at the boat to be 100% of the problem. I realize that many people will do anything to avoid admitting guilt, but there are just too many other boats and boaters out there running around with no issues, to point at a problem with the product itself.
Just my $26.50
The biggest reason it seems to be more frequent, is purely because of the internet. There have been equally as many spins, pitches, rolls, etc with other high performance brands. EVERYONE hears about the Cigarettes though, even when there aren't Cigarettes involved! Showing a video to the average person and dubbing it a "Cigarette boat" makes it much easier for the nonboater to relate to whether it actually is or not.
If it's a common problem with Cigarette alone, how can the THOUSANDS of other stepped Cigarette's around the world that aren't flipping over be explained? I'd have to assume the majority of them aren't operated by professional drivers, or even drivers with the most basic high performance boating experience? Taking that into account, I'd bet the overwhelming majority haven't taken the Tres Martin course, or have experienced any other program designed to teach proper technique? I'd be more willing to buy into the product liability theory if there were incidents like this, or even close calls, happening to all or the majority of the boats in circulation.
I never had an issue with my twin step, and I promise I drove it aggressively. Of the MANY friends, and acquaintances that own or have owned stepped Cigarettes, only one took a swim. He's also been wet in two previous boats that were NOT Cigarettes, but had stepped hulls. Coincidentally, his swim was nearly identical to the video in this thread, and the yellow one Rik has posted before. My buddy IMMEDIATELY, and to this day, admits driver error was the cause. The boat was BRAND NEW.....and he was cutting the sticks in the middle of a steep turn, it caused the hull to slide, then catch, shifting the total weight to the outside, and inevitably pitching him and the passengers out. The boat circled, then ran ashore thankfully not doing serious damage to the HUGE marina just down the cove.
The Chang/Stinson swim WAS indeed one of the first TS boats, which also means the technique needed to properly operate them was a very new concept as well. It doesn't matter who it was since even the most seasoned boaters had to change what they've known for decades to adjust correctly. Stinson AND Chang grew up driving high performance boats of all kinds, but stepping into something that is the polar opposite of previous Cigarette or Apache flat bottom boats, takes a learning curve for anyone. Couple that with a race environment and different handling characteristics, and more room is there for error.
No matter the brand, I just dont' think it's accurate to always point the blame at the boat to be 100% of the problem. I realize that many people will do anything to avoid admitting guilt, but there are just too many other boats and boaters out there running around with no issues, to point at a problem with the product itself.
Just my $26.50
02-04-2009, 03:32 PM
#52
Most manufacturers will provide a Tres Martin course for free as part of the purchase price.......Cigarette/Fountain are not two of them.
Sunsation, Nortech, Outerlimits and others will provide the course as part of your purchase..........
02-04-2009, 06:52 PM
#55
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
That's more so they can sell the boat than for the customer. The insurance companies want the operator to have experience and the class fills the requirement for the buyer especially if it is a cat.
02-04-2009, 07:23 PM
#57
Gold Member
Gold Member
02-04-2009, 07:27 PM
#58
VIP Member
VIP Member
Let off throttle to much and the nose goes down and grabs more. Then with air under the last 1/3 of the boat it will want to hook.
Last edited by BraceYourself; 02-04-2009 at 07:29 PM.
02-04-2009, 07:31 PM
#59
Gold Member
Gold Member
02-05-2009, 10:20 AM
#60
Gold Member
Gold Member
Could you imagine if there was a kid or someone on the boat that didn't get thrown out. Lucky that no one was in the boat when it went up on the rocks like that.
