Like Tree1Likes

525 EFI Upgrade

Reply
Old 04-29-2009, 07:07 PM
  #11
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
Sorry to rain on your party guys, but there seems to be a misconception in the performance boating community that there is all kinds of hidden horsepower to be unlocked with performance marine engines with simple ECM reflashes.
The truth is Mercury racing has programmed the HP525 to its best horsepower at its rated rpm whre it will live! Unless you go into the engine and start making changes to cubic inches, cams, heads and induction system you are not going to see magic horsepower with any ECM reflash, anybody who tells you such is blowing smoke up your bung hole!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray,

Actually, there is 25hp left in the stock motor. First, the power climbs to 5650 and thats worth 15, and then the timing only goes to 32 at 5400rpm. Motor is happy at 34deg. Also, motor is slightly rich at idle and mid range, but slightly lean at 5000-5600rpm so they need a touch more fuel. Also, timing at lower rpms is extremely low, so torque can really be brought up significantly.

Dustin
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 11:12 PM
  #12
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 2,777
Wink How to get there from Here!

I would say that a possible 25 horsepower is not a great deal when you consider that you are turning up the rpm from 5350 to 5650 and increasing timing advance on the motor to achieve it. As for the retarded timing at low rpms you and I both know Mercury's fondness for that however thats not going to generate any real high midrange or top end power for these engines at rpms where the timing curves are actually retarding timing as they should from midrange advanced timing.
When you consider that Mercury Racing has had these engines in the field since 2001 with a lot of them in all out racing applications it becomes more important to maintain a little conservatisim in the programming to deliver good reasonable engine life of 300-500 hours. As we all know the HP series engines have always had a mild problem with valve spring life and this is aggravated when the HP525 is going to be run at 300 rpms more on the top end.
Almost any engine can be pushed to the ragged edge for maximum power however most of the time the engine owner will loose valuable reliability and engine life. If they are racing thats a whole other situation and sometimes winning means running at the EDGE!
I feel that if you have an HP525 series engine and you want a significant horsepower increase of lets say 50 to 100HP more then you should be prepared to go into the engine and do some cam, headwork and even consider taking the engine from 502 cubic inches to a 540 cubic inch version and then do the necessary upgrades to the fuel injection system to support the added power. These type of changes will for sure require a reprogram of the ECM to allow a 575HP to 625HP version of this engine to operate reliably at its original 5300-5400 rpm range.
I personaly don't feel any big block chevrolet marine high performance engine should be operated at sustained rpms above 5400 rpms for long periods of operational time without a shaft rocker system and special valve spring packages and valves to keep the valve train stable with this type of endurance usuage. You can do it for awhile, but eventually you are going to pay with a badly damaged engine!
Every performance boater is thrilled with his new found performance until that little bugger grenades!!

Just my two cents and maybe not worth much more.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Raylar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:09 AM
  #13
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
I would say that a possible 25 horsepower is not a great deal when you consider that you are turning up the rpm from 5350 to 5650 and increasing timing advance on the motor to achieve it. As for the retarded timing at low rpms you and I both know Mercury's fondness for that however thats not going to generate any real high midrange or top end power for these engines at rpms where the timing curves are actually retarding timing as they should from midrange advanced timing.
When you consider that Mercury Racing has had these engines in the field since 2001 with a lot of them in all out racing applications it becomes more important to maintain a little conservatisim in the programming to deliver good reasonable engine life of 300-500 hours. As we all know the HP series engines have always had a mild problem with valve spring life and this is aggravated when the HP525 is going to be run at 300 rpms more on the top end.
Almost any engine can be pushed to the ragged edge for maximum power however most of the time the engine owner will loose valuable reliability and engine life. If they are racing thats a whole other situation and sometimes winning means running at the EDGE!
I feel that if you have an HP525 series engine and you want a significant horsepower increase of lets say 50 to 100HP more then you should be prepared to go into the engine and do some cam, headwork and even consider taking the engine from 502 cubic inches to a 540 cubic inch version and then do the necessary upgrades to the fuel injection system to support the added power. These type of changes will for sure require a reprogram of the ECM to allow a 575HP to 625HP version of this engine to operate reliably at its original 5300-5400 rpm range.
I personaly don't feel any big block chevrolet marine high performance engine should be operated at sustained rpms above 5400 rpms for long periods of operational time without a shaft rocker system and special valve spring packages and valves to keep the valve train stable with this type of endurance usuage. You can do it for awhile, but eventually you are going to pay with a badly damaged engine!
Every performance boater is thrilled with his new found performance until that little bugger grenades!!

Just my two cents and maybe not worth much more.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

But Ray you told me that it was okay to run my engine at 5999 as long as I didnt' go to 6000....

SDFever is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 08:55 AM
  #14
Registered
 
outriggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Clinton N.J.
Posts: 946
Default

Dustin, With your ECM upgrade what fuel can you use? Doug
outriggers is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 11:44 AM
  #15
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
PARADOX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
My Boats: Formula 272 Sold, 26 Infinity, 4 sale, 08-33' Avanti 4SALE
Posts: 2,697
Default

Just my two cents and maybe not worth much more.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Ray.. your 2 cents always worth at least a nickle, and appreciated.

Peter
PARADOX is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:41 PM
  #16
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rockwood MI. Kalkaska MI. Sopron Hungary.
My Boats: 37 Active Thunder / Arneson, 28 Apache CC
Posts: 1,551
Default

Very good points Ray, I have to pull the motors next winter anyway to go through them so i figured since they are apart lets bump them up a bit to the 625-650 HP Range, figuired we could do that with some good head work and piston rod combination as well as proper ECM programming and valve train upgrade as well. Just starting to do our research for the best most reliable combination for the money.
laszlo01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 06:07 PM
  #17
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laszlo01 View Post
Very good points Ray, I have to pull the motors next winter anyway to go through them so i figured since they are apart lets bump them up a bit to the 625-650 HP Range, figuired we could do that with some good head work and piston rod combination as well as proper ECM programming and valve train upgrade as well. Just starting to do our research for the best most reliable combination for the money.
Multiple guys have updated the motors with bigger cams, more compresssion and ported heads. Of course more ci also helps so 625 is somewhat easy to achieve. After that, the intake becomes somewhat of a restriction.
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 06:08 PM
  #18
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outriggers View Post
Dustin, With your ECM upgrade what fuel can you use? Doug
Ideally 89 octane, but most get away with 87 octane. 91 is best in my book, since it's only .20 more, but sometimes its not available.
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 06:36 PM
  #19
Registered
 
Whipple Charged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fresno, CA, 93722, USA
My Boats: Engine, speed, powerboats, Outerlimits SV43 with Whipple 1375SCI's
Posts: 1,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
I would say that a possible 25 horsepower is not a great deal when you consider that you are turning up the rpm from 5350 to 5650 and increasing timing advance on the motor to achieve it. As for the retarded timing at low rpms you and I both know Mercury's fondness for that however thats not going to generate any real high midrange or top end power for these engines at rpms where the timing curves are actually retarding timing as they should from midrange advanced timing.
When you consider that Mercury Racing has had these engines in the field since 2001 with a lot of them in all out racing applications it becomes more important to maintain a little conservatisim in the programming to deliver good reasonable engine life of 300-500 hours. As we all know the HP series engines have always had a mild problem with valve spring life and this is aggravated when the HP525 is going to be run at 300 rpms more on the top end.
Almost any engine can be pushed to the ragged edge for maximum power however most of the time the engine owner will loose valuable reliability and engine life. If they are racing thats a whole other situation and sometimes winning means running at the EDGE!
I feel that if you have an HP525 series engine and you want a significant horsepower increase of lets say 50 to 100HP more then you should be prepared to go into the engine and do some cam, headwork and even consider taking the engine from 502 cubic inches to a 540 cubic inch version and then do the necessary upgrades to the fuel injection system to support the added power. These type of changes will for sure require a reprogram of the ECM to allow a 575HP to 625HP version of this engine to operate reliably at its original 5300-5400 rpm range.
I personaly don't feel any big block chevrolet marine high performance engine should be operated at sustained rpms above 5400 rpms for long periods of operational time without a shaft rocker system and special valve spring packages and valves to keep the valve train stable with this type of endurance usuage. You can do it for awhile, but eventually you are going to pay with a badly damaged engine!
Every performance boater is thrilled with his new found performance until that little bugger grenades!!

Just my two cents and maybe not worth much more.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Sorry, but 34deg's is certainly not a ragged edge. The timing table is almost identical to the 500hp efi motor, which had a slightly smaller camshaft and steel heads. They commanded 32deg total at 5400, 29 at 5200. The funny thing is that the base timing was set in the cal for 8deg, but every 500hp efi motor that came out had 10deg base, which gives the motor 2 deg more than what's shown on the scan tool. Meaning they had 31 and 34. Those were proven very, very safe and reliable. Install the bigger cam, aluminum heads and actually your still very conservative.

Many race teams have done similar things by spacing the crank sensor up, which gave the motor more timing. This is only good for 1-3deg's though, and certainly more timing can be run.

Also note, the stock timing table is setup like a carb motor, 12deg's at idle, 32 @ WOT peak rpm. At lower vacuums, they run the same timing. Most motors can run more timing, closer to 36-38deg in low to mid throttle (low to mid vacuum levels) to get better combustion efficiency, higher mileage, less soot and cooler temps.

Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Charged is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2009, 03:36 PM
  #20
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ontario canada
My Boats: 2005 nor-tech 36 CAT
Posts: 308
Default

Has anyone had there 525EFI reflashed by Tyler Crockett or Dustin Wipple? 25 to 30 HP more?
26awesome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.