It seems to me a couple things here - what most talk about here is they want diesels for fast pleasure boats - correct?

I think we all agree there is no problem building racing engines, whether it's V-8's or 6's building a racing product is easier because the expected life is sooooo short compared to what we all want in a pleasure boat, even one that is fast, you wouldn't want to have it last only 10 hrs - correct?

So, that means all our debates, disputes are all about how to do diesels in fast boats and make a profit doing it or else why do it for a pleasure boat - correct?

Even end users on here such as Jassman expect that if he brought a diesel boat that the people who's engines / drives are in it sold them at a profit and can stand behind them - if the company can't make money then the company can not stand behind what it makes - correct?

With that said, it still confuses me that people want to investigate "new" engines or drives (not Pat, his drives are not made to compete with Bravos) with no chance of commerical acceptance on the world-wide market when appling existing products differently will most probably get them the results they desire and have comerical acceptance???

I just don't know anymore, it's not about overseas or made in the USA. Does anyone know what On-Spot chains are? They were made in Sweden and we (I helped) bring the manufacturing here to North Veron, Ind. You can make products here cheap and don't need to go to China but you have to have a product that is worth building in the first place or a product that people need and want.

A short lived, expensive diesel with no parts or service distribution is not what is going to sell - sorry!

Yo Joe loookie at deeesss
 

Stumbled across something interesting...ed :evilb:
http://www.deltahawkengines.com/

Thank you all so much for the discussion - I've enjoyed it tremendously and learned a great deal.

As many of you have surmised we are looking at the military market (they don't like gas for obvious reasons) so the discussions on reliability, longevity and repairability were especially helpful.

So if I may ask one more question(s) and your answers can be as simple or as complete as you would like.

Now 45' x 12', 15K Lbs - What would you choose for drivetrain? Thanks!

QSM11's 715 hp with Arneson drives, 2 speed trans with something like .9:1 or 1:1 final ratio put you into 70's

Don't believe you'll be 15,000 lbs i think with troops, gear, fuel, etc you'll be 20,000 lbs when all said and done????

You need big cubes to get that thing up and on plane with ease, it's military it can't take 1/2 mile to come over the top and start running and it can't sit there venting props and trying to let them grab hold. It needs to dig in, get a big bite, have pure cubic inches to drive the props at low rpm's and pop right over and run.

Firefox should remember the Cummins Israeli tank engines (hyper-bars), same concept, if you sit still you're dead!

Military...

I just did a new 49' Cigarette with the QSM11 715 Cummins weighing more than the target. ASD11's and I'm in the 70's. :D

Sorry but I'm a bit confused - are you saying that you think the QSM11 715's with the Arneson's will be a good fit or are you saying that I'll need bigger (than the QSM11's) so that I'm not taking 1/2 mile to come over the top and start running?

Thank you for your continuing interest and help - really appreciated and I'm learning a LOT!

Jay, thats what Habana Joe is saying. He believes if your weight of your boat is coming in around 15k.. then load fuel, people and gear, and you'll tip 20k. Diesels are diff. than gas and take a few more seconds to get up esp. with the electronics. It's all or nothing when getter her up. I would get your weight numbers first.. I feel you will come in around 12500-13k than add fuel to get to around 15-16k. Basically you want to hop up as quick as possible and this package might be a lil soft... If you can alter your design and shave weight now would be the time to do it. It was good talking with you at the Miami show.. you build one hell of a product...I know cause I almost bought one... your welds were spot on.....awesome.. we'll talk in spring on a 23 super top.. sold my 08 23 Albury and need to replace this boat first. Jeff

Yes, I think the QSM11's would be a good fit for this boat. I think the 600hp C's would get the job done??? But, they would not have the acceleration or get up and go I think you need.

QSM11's would add weight, they are bigger, bigger trans as well but 11L's vs 8.3L's and I think you need those cubic inches.

The problem is there is nothing off the shelf that will beat the QSM11's for weight , power and get up and go.

I would bet you if you went to Cummins there is a mil spec QSM11 (800 hp or so) that they can give you if this is an offical military project. Cummins has lots of secret projects, it wouldn't hurt to call them and ask, you might be surprised?

Not for nothing but Man has an 800hp I-6 http://www.man-mec.com/R6-800%20specs.htm about 200 lbs heavier and 200 rpm's slower but 800 hp? You could jacked up the gears a little more to .8:1 it might work good, there are plenty of parts and dealers, they have a parts distrobution center in NJ - just a thought?

Jay,Being a former Navy SEAL, and working at the SBU, I will state that, if the boat is being designed for SPECOPS missions, plan on the boat being HEAVY. Besides the weight of the personel, factor in a LOT of gear, weapons and ammo. You'd be suprised just how heavy an HSB was when fully loaded. As for the beam, go as wide as you can. Is the boat designed to be C141/ C17 flyable. That's a key to quick deployments. The SOCOM MKV is only C5 deployable (Antonov works as well) and it makes things much more complicated as a result. One other factor which is often overlooked for SPECOP craft, make it a dry boat. The HSB's were a very dry riding boat, and when operating in a sub zero environment, this makes a huge difference in combat rediness. The RIBS the Navy are useing currently fail miserably in this department. Having been on HSB's in foul weather where RIBS were being used as well, you can see the difference in the personel after a 12hr mission. Mogas ( motor gasoline) is basically dead for the Navy. Even Zodiac motors are going to be switched over, so the Diesel engine is the only choice. As much as the performance has to be there, reliability has to be an equal. Lots of good info here, from guys that know much more than I in the diesel department. Best of luck with your project.


Darrell.