BIG Time motor problem ...any ideas ?????
07-30-2009, 10:34 AM
#131
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Bill
My .02 for what its worth is send them to WESCO (Dave Wess..) for the pure pleasure of probably never again having to start a thread like this one again. You'll be boating instead of typing...I've got his motors and so can validate both the quality of what he builds and the service behind it not to mention he's a great guy period.
Good Luck..
My .02 for what its worth is send them to WESCO (Dave Wess..) for the pure pleasure of probably never again having to start a thread like this one again. You'll be boating instead of typing...I've got his motors and so can validate both the quality of what he builds and the service behind it not to mention he's a great guy period.
Good Luck..
07-30-2009, 10:40 AM
#132
Registered
Platinum Member
Thanks for the offer Brian but NO interest in anything to do with the word WORK ....
I'm happy spending my days in the pool with the A/C,Blondes,Boobs, and cold drinks 
good luck on your project .....
I'm Liking Jeremys idea with the Lambo and gonna take the girls & hit Harrahs in Joliet this afternoon
I'm happy spending my days in the pool with the A/C,Blondes,Boobs, and cold drinks good luck on your project .....
I'm Liking Jeremys idea with the Lambo and gonna take the girls & hit Harrahs in Joliet this afternoon
07-30-2009, 10:42 AM
#134
Registered
How much power did they make Bill?
I just see to many areas for problems. Big chief heads, meth and water, big roots blowers, etc. It's not what I would build. That doesn't mean it will not work. I'm sure it can be made to work just fine. At that power level, I just try to keep it simple. The simplier, the better in my opinion. If one thing is just a little bit out of whack, it will melt down like it did. There is just to much to go wrong in my opinion.
MY 1200/1400 efi is simply a 598 ci with 23 deg heads, a hydraulic roller and a 5 liter efi Whipple. The ones in the 399 V actually made 1326 hp on 93 octane. We held it for as long as we could at 6400 rpm to be sure that everything had stabilized. The egt's had peaked and were actually coming down, so I was happy that the engine was safe at that level. Now it would still need to be checked in the boat to be sure everything was good. I would NEVER just cut a customer loose with that. I backed them down to 1229 hp, just because that is what the customer wanted and all he needed. I am absolutely not tooting my horn or saying I'm great, I just think there are easier and safer ways to make the power. It has knock protection, among other safety features, to help it live if something goes wrong. The carb engines have no safety measures. I' m also not bashing Larry. He may have this combo figured out, but if something beyond his control goes wrong, there is no safety margin. I think every engine like that needs to be run in the boat with the builder. I run every engine I build and 9 out of 10 get a little tweaking to get them 100%. Not only that, but I usually find something in the boat that is not up to the task of supporting that kind of power. There could easily be something in the boat that could cause a failure in the engine (to small of a fuel line, water line, etc), that is out of the hands of the engine builder. That is why I run every one of them personally.
Here is a perfect example: the 399 Skater I just did actually had pickups in the fuel tank that were to big. The pumps had problems picking up the fuel when it got to about 1/4 tank. It was causing the fuel pressure to drop. If the customer would have run it hard, it may not have lived. I ran the boat several times and was able to catch it before it caused a problem. I seriously doubt the customer would have noticed a 5 or 10 psi drop in fuel pressure.
This is all just my opinion. Everyone has one, good or bad. Again, I'm am NOT bashing Larry or patting myself on the back. This is just the way I see it.
Eddie
I just see to many areas for problems. Big chief heads, meth and water, big roots blowers, etc. It's not what I would build. That doesn't mean it will not work. I'm sure it can be made to work just fine. At that power level, I just try to keep it simple. The simplier, the better in my opinion. If one thing is just a little bit out of whack, it will melt down like it did. There is just to much to go wrong in my opinion.
MY 1200/1400 efi is simply a 598 ci with 23 deg heads, a hydraulic roller and a 5 liter efi Whipple. The ones in the 399 V actually made 1326 hp on 93 octane. We held it for as long as we could at 6400 rpm to be sure that everything had stabilized. The egt's had peaked and were actually coming down, so I was happy that the engine was safe at that level. Now it would still need to be checked in the boat to be sure everything was good. I would NEVER just cut a customer loose with that. I backed them down to 1229 hp, just because that is what the customer wanted and all he needed. I am absolutely not tooting my horn or saying I'm great, I just think there are easier and safer ways to make the power. It has knock protection, among other safety features, to help it live if something goes wrong. The carb engines have no safety measures. I' m also not bashing Larry. He may have this combo figured out, but if something beyond his control goes wrong, there is no safety margin. I think every engine like that needs to be run in the boat with the builder. I run every engine I build and 9 out of 10 get a little tweaking to get them 100%. Not only that, but I usually find something in the boat that is not up to the task of supporting that kind of power. There could easily be something in the boat that could cause a failure in the engine (to small of a fuel line, water line, etc), that is out of the hands of the engine builder. That is why I run every one of them personally.
Here is a perfect example: the 399 Skater I just did actually had pickups in the fuel tank that were to big. The pumps had problems picking up the fuel when it got to about 1/4 tank. It was causing the fuel pressure to drop. If the customer would have run it hard, it may not have lived. I ran the boat several times and was able to catch it before it caused a problem. I seriously doubt the customer would have noticed a 5 or 10 psi drop in fuel pressure.
This is all just my opinion. Everyone has one, good or bad. Again, I'm am NOT bashing Larry or patting myself on the back. This is just the way I see it.
Eddie
07-30-2009, 10:43 AM
#135
Banned
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921489]
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
Absolutely positivily BIG Daddy on the morning of June 22 Larry returned my call from his answ machine of 06/ 21 and if i had a tape recorder it would say 4000 rpm is the worse rpm that is max torque and maybe the methanol should come on at 4 lbs of boost,send the motors back to me and I will REDESIGN the pistons and have to start over again ...... were you there for this phone call ????
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
Absolutely positivily BIG Daddy on the morning of June 22 Larry returned my call from his answ machine of 06/ 21 and if i had a tape recorder it would say 4000 rpm is the worse rpm that is max torque and maybe the methanol should come on at 4 lbs of boost,send the motors back to me and I will REDESIGN the pistons and have to start over again ...... were you there for this phone call ????
07-30-2009, 10:54 AM
#136
Banned
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921489]
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
U R confused let me xplain , I am not fuel injected absolutely correct ...we were talking about the dyno and i asked LARRY why we just made power pulls some builders say they hold the dyno at cruise range 4000,4500 for 20 or 30 seconds to tune for cruise and torque range ...LARRY said my dyno is set up for 300 rpm/per second 3,000- 7000 and i'd have to write a program to pull & hold ... NOTE BIG Daddy I have tons of notes,phone records,emails, I just wish this would of leaned out on the dyno in Tuscon at 4000 rpm and 5 lbs over the winter months and we could of at least saved 1 motor and retuned ..... I'm thinking from 3,000-7,000 the motor was under boost the whole way and meth was spraying on the dyno at 1 gallon every 2 minutes ...
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
U R confused let me xplain , I am not fuel injected absolutely correct ...we were talking about the dyno and i asked LARRY why we just made power pulls some builders say they hold the dyno at cruise range 4000,4500 for 20 or 30 seconds to tune for cruise and torque range ...LARRY said my dyno is set up for 300 rpm/per second 3,000- 7000 and i'd have to write a program to pull & hold ... NOTE BIG Daddy I have tons of notes,phone records,emails, I just wish this would of leaned out on the dyno in Tuscon at 4000 rpm and 5 lbs over the winter months and we could of at least saved 1 motor and retuned ..... I'm thinking from 3,000-7,000 the motor was under boost the whole way and meth was spraying on the dyno at 1 gallon every 2 minutes ...
07-30-2009, 11:15 AM
#137
Banned
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921489]
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
EVERYONE is not me BIG Daddy , motors came in the SKATER with BIG CHIEF and we had not a stich of problems only checked valve adjustments.... So if i new they were such a problem i would'nt have spent good money after bad ...they worked flawless the 2 years prior so why would i have reason to think any different .... I am a check the oil and put fuel in kinda guy .....
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
Once again dont know where your getting your facts from but we were 140 mph the last 2 years with the 35s and wet sump drives .... U & Larry sold me on he was the GURU and BIG CHIEF head guy , if they should of been boat anchors then it should of been discussed instead of just selling Titanium valves,Berylium seats, LARRYS MARINE competition stage 3 port job that does'nt match the flow #s and are just a tad over out of the box ....
I should of known better when i wanted JIM VALAKO to do the heads and BOB MADERA MARINE KINETICS to do the cams and LARRYS said NOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we do it all here which is fine to wear many hats but i would'nt have my concrete man come in the house to hang 60K in cherry cabinets and my wifes kitchen ....
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
EVERYONE is not me BIG Daddy , motors came in the SKATER with BIG CHIEF and we had not a stich of problems only checked valve adjustments.... So if i new they were such a problem i would'nt have spent good money after bad ...they worked flawless the 2 years prior so why would i have reason to think any different .... I am a check the oil and put fuel in kinda guy .....
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
Once again dont know where your getting your facts from but we were 140 mph the last 2 years with the 35s and wet sump drives .... U & Larry sold me on he was the GURU and BIG CHIEF head guy , if they should of been boat anchors then it should of been discussed instead of just selling Titanium valves,Berylium seats, LARRYS MARINE competition stage 3 port job that does'nt match the flow #s and are just a tad over out of the box ....
I should of known better when i wanted JIM VALAKO to do the heads and BOB MADERA MARINE KINETICS to do the cams and LARRYS said NOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we do it all here which is fine to wear many hats but i would'nt have my concrete man come in the house to hang 60K in cherry cabinets and my wifes kitchen ....
07-30-2009, 11:28 AM
#138
Banned
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921489]
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
200 hours may have been a sales pitch which is fine even if they made it 100-120 thats a few seasons for us BUT 3.7 hours WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep in mind the motors LARRYS took apart were 200 plus hour blower motors they had NOS sprayed on them and pistons & bearings looked like they just came out of the box ...
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks....... YES and it was 4 trannys and problem was solved after eliminating the check valves that were the restriction that H@ber for years said to run them ..... and now DONT USE CHECKVALVES .... and BTW they were warrantied by EARL @ Huber and stood behind them and aknowledged a problem and made it right ....
Anything else BIG DAddy the girls are waiting in the car for a day at the Casino
Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.
1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......
And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......
I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
200 hours may have been a sales pitch which is fine even if they made it 100-120 thats a few seasons for us BUT 3.7 hours WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep in mind the motors LARRYS took apart were 200 plus hour blower motors they had NOS sprayed on them and pistons & bearings looked like they just came out of the box ...
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks....... YES and it was 4 trannys and problem was solved after eliminating the check valves that were the restriction that H@ber for years said to run them ..... and now DONT USE CHECKVALVES .... and BTW they were warrantied by EARL @ Huber and stood behind them and aknowledged a problem and made it right ....
Anything else BIG DAddy the girls are waiting in the car for a day at the Casino
07-30-2009, 12:46 PM
#139
VIP Member
VIP Member
[QUOTE= BTW they were warrantied by EARL @ Huber and stood behind them and aknowledged a problem and made it right .... :[/QUOTE]
HOLY ****... Warranty on transmision failure. I've never heard such a thing...
:[/QUOTE]HOLY ****... Warranty on transmision failure. I've never heard such a thing...
07-30-2009, 01:00 PM
#140
Registered
Platinum Member
Anything else BIG DAddy the girls are waiting in the car for a day at the Casino [/QUOTE]
Bet $100 on green 0 for me Big Daddy. I'll split it with you.
[/QUOTE]Bet $100 on green 0 for me Big Daddy. I'll split it with you.
