the real story...
04-09-2002, 11:21 AM
#32
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Because I was critical of Dollar in my post I'm compelled to reveal to the Board that I was contacted by Mindi Dollar by E Mail regarding my post. She expressed her concern for my criticism in a polite & professional manner. Knowing that there are ALWAYS two sides to a storey, without implying which side I do or do not believe, I'm left with the impression that DOLLAR genuinely tries to do the "right thing", and that this was perhaps a very unlucky situation for both parties, OT & Dollar.
I would not be afraid to do business with DOLLAR in the future.
I would not be afraid to do business with DOLLAR in the future.
04-09-2002, 01:18 PM
#34
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I work in the customer relation in the auto service business. It seems that when complaints arise most customers are looking for financial restitution. I don't know what transpired between the two parties,but in my estimation no talk of compromise was discussed. You can stand on principal,but that usually also has a price . I don't believe this whole thread would even exist if TALK existed. Just my .02
04-09-2002, 01:33 PM
#35
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Tinker,
Sorry to take so long to post a repley. Too Old hit the nail right on the head. 10% is an attractive number to stretch the truth. (Not that anyone in this case stretched the truth, this is for a generic situation) A Broker with my company does in fact do Surveys. He will not do a survey on a boat in which he is involved in any other way with the transaction other than the survey. furthermore nobody within my company will use him for a survey on a boat that the company is involved in a transaction. I will NEVER use a dealer to survey a boat that they are taking part in the sale. To have a boat surveyed usually will run about $10 per foot for a Hull Survey. The guy that I now use for the Mechanical Surveys charges $500 plus all expenses. He will go through the boat bow to stern and give his honest Proffessional opinion. To the point where he would insult a Nun. But that is what you pay for, The truth. Considering he owns his own shop I can also get the cost to fix whatever is wrong and take that off the final offered price if that is what the Buyer wants. I have found that one of the best places to go to find a surveyor is a lending instatution. The are putting up the cash and want to know what they are buying. Ask them who they suggest. And make sure the surveyor puts down a Replacement value for the insurance company. Otherwise if God Forbid somthing happens to your boatyou dont want to find out that you paid $150K for the boat but insurance will only pay you back $120K. Ifthe Survey shows $150 you should be able to get that on your insurance. Have your broker find the right Insurance, Loan, and anything else you need before you buy the boat. Like I said 10% is alot of wompom, make us earn it.
Sorry to take so long to post a repley. Too Old hit the nail right on the head. 10% is an attractive number to stretch the truth. (Not that anyone in this case stretched the truth, this is for a generic situation) A Broker with my company does in fact do Surveys. He will not do a survey on a boat in which he is involved in any other way with the transaction other than the survey. furthermore nobody within my company will use him for a survey on a boat that the company is involved in a transaction. I will NEVER use a dealer to survey a boat that they are taking part in the sale. To have a boat surveyed usually will run about $10 per foot for a Hull Survey. The guy that I now use for the Mechanical Surveys charges $500 plus all expenses. He will go through the boat bow to stern and give his honest Proffessional opinion. To the point where he would insult a Nun. But that is what you pay for, The truth. Considering he owns his own shop I can also get the cost to fix whatever is wrong and take that off the final offered price if that is what the Buyer wants. I have found that one of the best places to go to find a surveyor is a lending instatution. The are putting up the cash and want to know what they are buying. Ask them who they suggest. And make sure the surveyor puts down a Replacement value for the insurance company. Otherwise if God Forbid somthing happens to your boatyou dont want to find out that you paid $150K for the boat but insurance will only pay you back $120K. Ifthe Survey shows $150 you should be able to get that on your insurance. Have your broker find the right Insurance, Loan, and anything else you need before you buy the boat. Like I said 10% is alot of wompom, make us earn it.
04-09-2002, 03:36 PM
#36
The only problem with that is will the seller let the buyer or his surveyer take the motor partially apart in order to properly inspect it? NO I don't think so. They will let you look it over and run it and take oil samples and other non invasive procedures. Would these tests have found these problems? Probably not. The other thing not mentioned yet is that I will bet that there is a disclaimer on the surveyers forms that remove responsibility for internal damage that they wern't able to test.
04-09-2002, 03:55 PM
#37
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Tangent- In the interest of helping others
I may be out on a limb here--
If I was going to be a professional in the surveying business I'd invest in a boroscope- I think they can be had for less than 10k
In the aviation biz these are used all the time to inspect piece parts and to do on wing engine inspections, airframe inspections etc. - you also see the swat team use them in the movies etc. and even dentists are using them. Essentially you've got a snake with fiberoptics feeding a camera, which can also be videotaped.
Some of us may have enough connections to borrow one- I know i'm lucky enough to have access to one.
These things can be fed in to spark plug holes and manipulated from the outside to have a look around, you can also go in through the valve cover holes etc. One thing for sure, If there is fresh crosshatching in the bores you'll see it. I had a buddy who went to look at a restored big $ Harley, the seller freaked when the boroscope came out and he had to back peddle on the claims that the engine was just overhauled etc.
Just thought I'd share the idea with the board, it's a great investigative tool though still not 100% foolproof.
Also- how many of you are aware that with a merc scan tool and newer engines you can access hours of operation on the engine and how many hours are at what rpm range. That would verify those little old lady used if for trolling stories.
If I was going to be a professional in the surveying business I'd invest in a boroscope- I think they can be had for less than 10k
In the aviation biz these are used all the time to inspect piece parts and to do on wing engine inspections, airframe inspections etc. - you also see the swat team use them in the movies etc. and even dentists are using them. Essentially you've got a snake with fiberoptics feeding a camera, which can also be videotaped.
Some of us may have enough connections to borrow one- I know i'm lucky enough to have access to one.
These things can be fed in to spark plug holes and manipulated from the outside to have a look around, you can also go in through the valve cover holes etc. One thing for sure, If there is fresh crosshatching in the bores you'll see it. I had a buddy who went to look at a restored big $ Harley, the seller freaked when the boroscope came out and he had to back peddle on the claims that the engine was just overhauled etc.
Just thought I'd share the idea with the board, it's a great investigative tool though still not 100% foolproof.
Also- how many of you are aware that with a merc scan tool and newer engines you can access hours of operation on the engine and how many hours are at what rpm range. That would verify those little old lady used if for trolling stories.
Last edited by Cattitude; 04-09-2002 at 03:59 PM.
04-09-2002, 03:59 PM
#38
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Most yacht surveyors will only do a cursory inspection of the engines/machinery. If a more indepth report is wanted, a certified marine mechanic is your best bet..........
04-09-2002, 04:19 PM
#39
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"Also- how many of you are aware that with a merc scan tool and newer engines you can access hours of operation on the engine and how many hours are at what rpm range. That would verify those little old lady used if for trolling stories."
Cat-
This also keeps people honest when it comes to installing new meters, or unplugging meters. Not that that ever happens in the honest world of boating (Ha Ha Ha!!!) You should see the look on someones fac when they have been telling you "The boat only has 35 Hours" and you pull one of those little babies out
newly found stuttering problems are good for lowering the offered price. The tools work well the other way to. Like on Baja's if you leave the key on the hour meter keeps running. Ive seen Baja's with ovr 250 hours on the meter but only 50 hours on the merc engine with matching ##'s The meters are great Ideas! Thanks Trout...I aim to please...And not get any bad OSO posts about the company!
Cat-
This also keeps people honest when it comes to installing new meters, or unplugging meters. Not that that ever happens in the honest world of boating (Ha Ha Ha!!!) You should see the look on someones fac when they have been telling you "The boat only has 35 Hours" and you pull one of those little babies out
newly found stuttering problems are good for lowering the offered price. The tools work well the other way to. Like on Baja's if you leave the key on the hour meter keeps running. Ive seen Baja's with ovr 250 hours on the meter but only 50 hours on the merc engine with matching ##'s The meters are great Ideas! Thanks Trout...I aim to please...And not get any bad OSO posts about the company!
04-09-2002, 06:18 PM
#40
Yes I have heard about the scope I have a similar device but it will not quite fit into a sparkplug hole. And what marina or broker is going to let a cert. mech from another company work on their boat. I still say that in some ways you have to trust the marina - broker that you are buying the boat from. There has to be some responsibility for claims made by the broker. Since it is the broker telling you this and not the actual owner of the boat. So before they pass this information -story on they should have to be able to back it up. In any other industry if you tried to sell a piece of crap as newly rebuilt you would be in court before you knew what hit you...
