GM Small Blocks: LS9 & LSA
 

These are two pretty stout small blocks. Is there a marine version of either of these engines.

The Generation IV LS9 is 376 cu.in, 9.1:1 pistons, 638 hp (ZR1 motor)

The LSA is the same just detuned. 556 hp (CTS-V motor)

What would be the cost if there is a marinized version? Nice stuff.

Small blocks are great , I have the 6.2 MX [ 377 ] blocks and happy with it.
The LSA would be my choice if I built a project .http://www.gm.com/experience/technol...LS3_Marine.pdf

You could also get these from Kodiak engineering for a few years now http://www.kemequipment.com/superchargedvortec6000.html

Yes there is. Ray from Raylar posts here so hopefully he can add some info to this thread.

http://www.raylarengine.com/550_engine.html

Which LS block is that based off of, the Gen IV LS7?

I don't know. Where is Ray when you need him?

I suggest you just give Raylar a call or an email. I'm sure they'd be happy to walk you through the specifics of that engine.

go to the skater forum under new LS7 30 SKATER IN THE SPRAY BOOTH

Both of those engines are based on a GEN IV LS 6.2 block. The LS7 is a 7.0

The LS9 S/C is making more than 133 hp compared to the LS7 with 51 less cu.in. and 9.1:1 pistons. The LS7 N/A has 11.1:1 pistons (505 hp). The Eaton blower seems to make the LS9 a nice engine.

Back to my original question on cost of LS9 in a marine application, is it available, cost? The LS7 does seem like the way to go.

The LSA makes 540 hp 540 tq.

http://www.marinepowerusa.com/Produc...MarineBase.pdf

I was supposed to get a pair of these for my 29 Baja last winter. The deal fell through.
I think it would have been a cool project. The swap would have lost me 1000 lbs out of the butt of my boat.

Looks good, how much were they asking? Headers included? Headers and reversion issues due to agressive (or mild) camshaft ?

I realize I have lots of questions, but I would think if the motor is marinized, then, with the headers in the market place for this motor that the cam shaft profile would be taken in account. I am not well versed in small aftermarket exhaust on this block design though I have been following the SBC thread for older style small blocks (exhaust location differs).

You have a PM.

What do you have in mind for the small block? With it being all alum would this be a problem. Seems like a great idea all power!!

My pockets are not full enough to do what I want, just gathering information. Closed cooling solves most of the aluminum concerns. I pull the boat out at fresh water ramps, now and in the future, so that helps in corrosion reduction.

I would think two of these (LSA or LS9) in a 27' Magnum, or plug a 34' Phantom, and make it a 32' boat with updating and redesign. Just ideas. I have lots of ideas, they just cost alot....

Newer technology, great design, weight savings, fuel efficient, ect.

WOW !!! I cant wait to see some boats test with a pair of these!! Anybody read or seen any postings?

If this engine weights in a 467 lbs waht does a 496HO weigh? How about a 502?

Here is what they look like in order and what they are used for by GM: LS9 (Covette ZR-1), LSA (Cadillac CTS-V), LS7 (Corvette racing)

I will have to check with GM Performance Parts Plus for pricing, but that will only be a street motor. LS9 = $22K

Square Peg In a Round Hole!
 

Right Here Now!
Both of these GM engines are in question now even for sales for car applications and even marine use will be a problem if you need the 500 ft/lbs of torque since the engines would be in boost all the time to deliver those numbers. This is the real reason Raylar & Mercury opted not to use or develop marine engines based on these smaller cubic inch supercharged engine platforms. Small cubic inch engines no matter how light in weight that can't deliver big torque numbers without boost are just small blocks of limited power and if they are in boost all the time to deliver these higher torque numbers, they are not going to live in marine high performance use no matter how COOL they look or sound!

THERE AIN'T NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!! In Boats Anyway!

This is why Raylar developed the LSM550 in a 434cu.inch size normally aspirated in an all aluminum version that is fresh water cooled and delivers over 500 ft/lbs of torque from 3800 to 5400 rpms.
This is the torque and power that is needed in performance boats and is what variable cam timing in a bigger inch aluminum small block can deliver. The only real problem for Raylar at this time with this motor is no one seems to have the money to buy new engines of this type in this economy so we'll just have to wait for the recovery?? If you've got the dollars, we've got the answer and the engine!

You guys figure out how to get a 365cubic inch or so small block to make 500ft/lbs of torque OUT OF BOOST and we'll start making them as quickly as we can!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Cost seems to be the chief factor. Twin small blocks have been installed in a 27'-32' boats for over 40 years with success, in racing and nonracing applications. The advent of a big power single with a drive that can handle it over small block twins has decreased that application and made it a affordable and one less motor to worry about.

Is your 434 cu.in version based on the Generation (LS7 above)small block? What does your version cost with exhaust? Horsepower peak at what rpm? Warranty?

I am a tire kicker and not a real prospect at this time, but a real prospect may be reading this thread, you never know.

PS - The JIMKID thread about his 30' Skater and the twin LS7 small blocks is pretty interesting, here is a quote,"722 hp at 6500 531ft of torque at 3500 and peak 645 ft torque at 5800 this thing is stillmaking 600ft of torque at 6300 rpm."

Impressive.

How Much Is That Doggy In The Window??
 

Cost is always with most performance boaters the determining factor when they repower a boat and is always influential when the spec out a new boat.
The Raylar LSM550 engines are start out as LS7 blocks, but nothing internal is GM other than the block. Everything else is forged quality specially Raylar designed parts and specifications except the variable cam control system which is a GM part with our ECM control.
The LSM550 currently,prices in the $26K-$29K range depending on equipment and configuration.
Good reliable, warrantied 500HP EFI electronic power is not cheap so don't plan on buying big power cheap unless you want to curse your project.
When you are ready to proceed on an upgrade call me and we will get you the pricing on our engine packages.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Whose avatar says "Fast, Cheap, Reliable - pick two"? So true. Seems to me LS series engines would be far better than old-school mouse motors in small-block applications, though, especially singles. More power and less weight.

Ray,

Thank you for the response. As you said there is no cheap way to reliability and horsepower, I agree and understand. I like what JIMKID did with his motors, that is some nice hardware. Your LS7 is also very nice.

Do you need a test boat for this idea (twin application 27'-32')? I will supply the rest, just an idea...

Chuck,

I am with you on the older style SBC. Before my father passed he was kicking around the idea of going to 540's for the Magnum, or going the other way and having a set of Bill Mitchell (World Products) 427 cu.in. SBC motors; the small block idea would have been costly, new exhaust, new everything for the SBC. He could have done short blocks 540 cu.in. He never got around to either idea, but he was once a hardcore small block Chevy guy, before the Pantera and Magnum ownership.

JIMKID,

I had to post the pictures of your hot-rod LS7's beautiful (hope you do not mind). That is what I am talking about, and a great boat for that motor application. Outstanding!

GM Performance Parts pricing:

LS9 $20,580
LS7 $13,999

Street motors

(I do not own GM stock or work for GM)

thanks guys those motors are 460 cubic inch torque is no problem the block bare weight is 113 lbs

JIMKID Motorsports:
Could you give us an idea of what your complete engines ended up costing with all hardware and exhausts ready to drop in and run? Really nicely done, hope everything is working as planned.

Smarty:
Curious where that pricing came from. I was just reading a publication that listed the LS9's at about $32K, wonder which price is accurate. By the time you add even to your listed pricing on an LS9 plus freshwater cooling and all the other marine conversion parts and an exhaust our prices don't look so bad on a naturally aspirated longer lived aluminum LS big cube marine engine.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

What is wrong w/ the 383sbc block?

Or the Dart 400 inch short block?

LS motors make a lot more power more reliably than the old sbc

LS9 and LSA's are nice but what about the LSX

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/L...-on_168394.htm

Also have VVT (variable valve timing) which helps increase the torque over a wide rpm range.

Check-out Weismens Drives site http://www.weismann.net/Press%20Page...AVRBayFair.htm

They put together a in-line (crank to crank) LS7 powered "V" hull that looks pretty impressive. The power is feed to 2 six speed trans. and then to 2 Weismen drives !!!!!

http://www.weismann.net/Press%20Page...eVeeDebuts.htm

Whats most impressive about Weismen is they have been building bullet proof drives, tran-axles and transmissions for years. They have a great reputation. These guys are always thinking out side the box.

Video of the engines running on trailer:http://www.youtube.com/user/weismann...77/nFgmX4RIHtI

Raylar,

LS motor prices:
GM Performance Parts Dealer - phone quote yesterday
NUCAR CHEVROLET
174 N DUPONT PKY
NEW CASTLE , DE 19720 -3125
Phone: (302 ) 322-2438 Fax: (302 ) 322-7839

Catman;

Here is an LSX 454 (11.1:1 pistons) for you (this is a Gen IV small block):

I like that, pretty cool stuff.

Prices for GM crate motors have come down. Last months Powerboat magazine had a good article about SB2 Nascar small blocks that Tyler Crokett was building for a Sunsation. I think any of these light, high reving small blocks would make a nice package in a sub 30 ft V bottom boat. The power to weight efficiency is getting in 2 stroke outboard territory ! The LS7 and the Nascar SB2 motors are dry sump motor that can spin some serious revs.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...ry_ID=2&Page=2

LSA experiences
 

I dont post here much, more of a lurker since I am not really an offshore boater. I had to chime in here since I am currently having a boat built with an LSA in it. The motors are redily available, as I have driven several LSA equipped boats already and my motor is on the way to my boat builder. These things are impressive to say the least, less than 500 lbs and way more power than the 8.1HO. I have been impressed so far with my test drives. They do burn A ton of fuel though, 40+ GPH at 4500 RPM (WOT) in a jet application. I bought mine for WAY less than the Raylar motor, fully marinized. I would of considered the Raylar motor, as I like the idea of more displacement, but I just couldnt afford it.

Are the LSA engines you are running in these boats, closed cooling ? Since they are jets, I kinda doubt it. remember LSA engines as well as our LSM550's are all aluminum engines and as such are not designed to run raw water cooling! Even the GM leterature on these engines calls for closed cooling for the engine and oil cooler systems and with aluminum intercoolers they won't last on raw water long! Good luck doing so, we'll see how long they last in such applications in hard running hours.
Sure, it appears they are now available from GM Performance, heck GM has been making them faster than they can sell Cadillac CTS-V's to put them in!
These LSA engines only make 500 ft/lbs of torque in FULL BOOST not at part throttle so we'll also see how they last in cruising rpms where you noticed them drinking fuel like crazy, thats because they were in BOOST!
These 364 cubic inch engines will not get it done for normal size performance boats, especially deep-vees 24-28 foot types when they need to make 450ft/lbs plus torque at 3500-4000rpms for cruise! Trust me, if these engines had held up in Mercury's last three years of testing, Mercury would be selling them marinized and not their new 502 rpelacement!
But what hell do I know, I am just an LS marine engine manufacturer! You guys are the experts!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

We have been running a pair of LS7 427 smallbocks for over a year now at 650hp. Great engine. We are turning them hard, 6800 to 7400. This winter we are putting them up to 700hp. In the video you can hear a sound change, thats a shift.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH0PmLrx0U

pat W

Sounds cool, looks cool, and most importantly it seems to be working based upon the race results, from the videos Rocco posted about your set-up on 11/4 in this thread. Who built your motors, would you disclose what it cost to get you those numbers (hp). Compression ratio?

I am an information sponge... (the transmissions and drives are interesting too, I realize that is your business, so post away, there may be a sales prospect lurking in this thread who does not know the benefits of your products..)

Thanks,

Stephen

I understand Pepe and Jo Nunez (Pantera) have a 28' twin step boat; that size boat (easily-trailerable, fast, ...) to me would be a great pleasure boat application for these LS7 motors. I better get back to work so I can make the money to make my dreams come true!

The motor that I have ordered and all the ones that I have seen are running closed cooling. I havent seen a motor go into a jet boat (at least the type that we run) without closed cooling for a long time.

The motor makes 545 ft lbs of torque at 4000 RPM and over 400 ft lbs from 1800 up, yes it is running in boost at WOT and burning lots of fuel. But at cruise (3000 rpm) it was burning 11-12 gph, about the same as an 8.1 in a similiar application. I have no idea how the motor will hold up (I am going to run it hard while it is still in warranty to make sure it is going to make it), but a lot of boats that I have been in have been running the 6L LY6 motors with Eaton superchargers. Those motors are holding up really well, and get excellent fuel economy.

When my boat builder put the first LSAs in a twin, some GM technicians came out to run the motors and get some data. The technicians had them run WOT for a sustained 5 minutes while monitoring all the engines parameters, and everything went fine, I am never going to run WOT for a full 5 minutes, but it is nice to know that the motor can take it. This is also the smoothest motor I have ever run. It is amazing how much less vibration and noise it makes than the 8.1.

Again, I think that the LSM550 looks like a sweet engine and I might of gone that way if it wasnt for the price, but for nearly half the cost I will have to take my chances with the LSA.

Five minutes? I would hope they can last a lot longer than that. In the marine world we talk about hours and hours at WOT.
Some guys drive with a bungee cord on the throttles to hold them full open. LOL

Who did the motors for you?

Seems like the 454 LSX might be nice.