In all honesty, the only real place I read a magazine is in the bathroom. In an earlier post I talked about using the iPod touch for reading and posting which is how this post is being written. Granted the iPod sometimes is too small and just doesn't satisfy the look and feel of a magazine but my opinion has changed after seeing apples latest gadget the ipad! Roughly the size of a magazine and only .5 inches thick this may be the device to help launch the real digital magazine era! Maybe you should think of developing your pilot issue as both a limited print copy and an ipad ready version? Just a thought!!!

Jim

"81 scarab project from hell" and "84 scarab renovation (ongoing)" are both located in the scarab owners forum. The second one is actually my forum and is still a work in progress as the boat hasn't seen water yet. These are a couple of examples of boat rebuilds on a limited budget!

Jim

I believe that I speak for many boaters out there that like to "UNPLUG" when the work day is over. Having zipped out to the local sandbar, cove, etc and dropped anchor-----time to put the feet up, crack open some brew and read my newest issue of Powerboat mag. Shut the phucking cellphone, ipod, upod, fpod, blackberry, blueberry, redphuckingberry-----OFF.

Is there more places then the crapper, Hell yes. PS. Case your wondering, just leaving work.

I do agree that boating magazines do have a place. From my humble point of view, two important things:

1) Honesty in conducting/reporting all product tested.
example: Love to read Bob Teague sounding off on how this boat "stinks" or that boat "turns beautiful---on it's own".
Ahhhhh, what am I thinking. The advertisers would never stand for it.

2) Ship each and every issue to the customer who just happened to paid for it-------IN ADVANCE.
Example: Some of us still remember being scammed out of our money by Extreme and their "non delivery".

db71,

Listen to Jim and Ron and learn from their experience. Jim is giving you REAL experience and advise. Are you ready to drop 15-20k an issue out the gate? PBM has been around for 40 years and is struggling to get advertisers (to pay!!). I remember people used to complain all the time when PBM was fat with ads. However, its those ads that pay for the magazine. Right now, in this economy, most are worried about keeping the electicity on, not how their quarter page ad looks in the latest magazine. No point in advertising when you might not be in business, or no one is buying a boat the month your ad comes out.

Everyone loves to critisize how a magazine is run, or the content, or what is said in a test, or that theres too many ads, but 99% of these people have no clue at what it takes. It's easy to sit on the side lines. Gettin in the game and fighting is another story.

I say more power to you. The more magazines in the market on the topic I love, the better! Your ideas are great. But get ready for a huge reality check once you're rolling. Even in a booming market (when Jim started Extreme) it's extremely difficult (no pun intended). But now, with this economy? There is absolutely 0 dollars in magazine right now.

I would stongly suggest calling Gregg Mansfield or Jason Johnson from PBM or RonP or Jim and talking to them one on one to gain some insite.

Alright 8 issues a year @25,000 each = $200,000 add $50,00 for travel and bar tabs $250,000 yr. $25 each subscription=10,000 subscriptions looks like I have a head start on about 5 maybe 10 customers so only 9,990 subscriptions left. If we get all these subscriptions and we can say fu to the advertisers.

What are the 20,000 to 25,000 costs per issue mainly printing or what? How may did you print? what about distribution?

I liked extreme boats mag. I have not seen a performance boat around me.

I figured there was cost and also figured advertising dollars thin.

The biggest thing on advertising is you have to do an ad where they know where the call is coming from. (I am thinking about this on the fly so my thoughts may change) If you can prove they come from your source then you can get the advertisers.

I was not really thinking hey lets do this to make some money I was thinking hey lets do something that interests me with other people who have the same interests and maybe some day it will turn a profit.

I am not losing interest in this idea I will definatly explore it but I am not going to do something tomorrow.

On another note I feel that a project boat type mag the way the economy is now would be a better fit than 3 years ago when money was easy.

I have sold advertising and spent money on it the thing I believe is if you as an marketing tool for advertisers produce measurable results than you get the dollars. How many times does a company ask how you heard about them as a customer (zero) you cannot expect them to so when you go to sell them advertising they say well I don't think it really works if you have a way to measure it exactly to number of calls they got from your pub then you can get the dollars (think apoartments.com).

Problem is old thinking gets old results I go in and say do you want to buy advertising this is what it costs for this size ad this is our demographic this is how many we print these are our subscriptions.

Another way of thinking is I will give you a ad in my mag for x subscriptions if I get x amount of leads you will pay x if I get xy you pay this If I don't get any you pay $0 (but we try again next month). There are ways for advertisers to track leads not just expect the customer to then you can give them a per lead cost and some companies help them get a handle on marketing.

EBM printed about 20k, but only had about 10,000 subscribers (I don't know that number for a fact, but it's close) The other 10k went to advertisers who then gave them away.

One thing Casey did better than most was the layout. EBM really had a slick feel to it.

So we agree, paper is great but almost dead. If you want to write articles I'm sure this web site would give you a formal place to post them for everyone to read. Some articles cost money due to travel etc, and some are cost free other than the time to write them.

I'll start. Here's an article that most would enjoy, cost nothing exept time and even has a quote from our own T2X. Enjoy.

*ignore the captions. This was a draft, not the final article.*

Ron....in the begining.......EB layout and photo quality SUCKED BIG TIME!!!! I could have done it better with an HP inkjet printer. :D But..........I have to say somebody (maybe Casey?) got the layout and photography together and looked great!

Publishing is changing but paper is not dead at all. Publishing is expanding! Ereaders and iTampon (iPad) will bring new things to new people in new ways!

Nort,
I'll agree our first issues were pretty bad, and we did print them on an ink jet printer as our working proofs, which were much better. It took a while to figure out the digital to print fixes needed to get it better.

Casey made all the differance though, he is a great photographer and it showed in every issue after he took over.

Now "Sucked Big Time"? Show me what you've published and maybe I'll take your critique, but probably not :rolleyes:

I'll tell you what, we had a ton of fun putting it together and love that we had the experience. I also think we had a bit of influence in the boating magazine industry putting out a better product, and articles we all wanted to see more of. I know we lit a fire under Hot Boat Mag back in 2003!!

Jim

Hey Jim!

Sorry but no offense intended.........I have not published a magazine but I am certainly involved with advertising, marketing and pre-press issues. I don't have the issues from the beginning but the first few that I remember were not good quality issues with regards to layout and photography. It just hadn't found a layout and direction yet. Layout is the magazine's personallity. My wife has also been in publishing for 20+ years and had some comments.

I hope the magazine comes back because it really was starting to be something!!!

Not sure if we can make the Spring Poker run this year......are you still thinking about the San Diego thing? I haven't heard crap from Wayne (SCOPE) and he said he was going to call you.

Out first issue was $10,000 for 5000 issues and we had about 1500 subscriptions. It got better per issue as the numbers went up and then our mailing costs went up as we tried different things to get the issue thru the mail intact. Lots of complaints about covers being ripped off, ect.

The biggest nut to crack is distribution, just to get it on the news stands takes lots of cash. Yup, you pay the distributors to get it in the stores and if you would like to get them in airports and the like? Forget it, 5 to 10 grand up front!

Thats whats so great about the net, we can all publish what we want and do our own advertising :)

Nort,
All in fun :O)

Yes,
I'm planning the "San Diego Bayfair Storm" for Sept 16 thru 19,2010.
Working out the schedule details and hotel costs now. Paradise Point hotel will be the hosting location and we'll be part of the offical Bayfair activities along with POPRA. Should be a great time! I'm already lining up sponsors and a band ect.

I did speak with Wayne yesterday and it's a bummer our two dates conflicted!! Not much I can do as Bayfair weekend is set in stone.

jd how is Casey doing ?? what is he doing these days ??

I for one miss the Magazine and enjoyed it very much

I haven't heard from him in almost a year, last known doing well and focusing on database work for a company in the south east. I too hope he can bring the mag back from the ashes of a lot of burnt bridges.

So what is the short EBM story I remember the mag but do not remember much. My problem is I'm not a publisher, editor, story writer, etc. I do have printing exp. and connections I also have advertising exp. sales of advertising from printing and buying of advertising from other business ventures. (One thing about print advertising is it will always be somehwere meaning once you run a tv spot or radio spot it is gone forever print will be laying somehwere)

I would need to bring the right people together to do this I do know that for sure I know there are some great photographers on here I'm sure some people can write articles.

I am definatly not criticizing what is out there now but I feel there is a need for a different type of mag. Who knows if the demand is there. One problem I can tell you is I can hardly find a boat mag on newstands other than boating (which is not my style) One place I can get PB but I think a big part is getting distribution to these areas. (My hometown is 5 minutes to a lake that has plenty of performance boats but I cant find a mag anywhere around there I have to go an hour away just to find one.

Db71,
I am the creative director for a business magazine here in Charlotte. I am very familiar with the ins and outs of the producing a monthly magazine. I would like to help you out with any particular questions you have relating to time, costs and the actual production process of a magazine.

Here are a few random thoughts and answers to questions that have been brought up in previous posts.

• The first things you need to think about are the circulation of the magazine, the number of pages it will include and the physical size of the magazine. Those are the key factors in figuring out the cost.

• The magazine I work for has a circulation of 20,000. The cost of printing a 48-page publication is around 20K a month and 6K for mailing. And our circulation is primarily in Charlotte. If you want to include national subscribers, the cost is going to increase significantly. Postage is calculated by the weight of the publication x circulation x the areas or zip codes it is mailed to.

• The start-up cost for our magazine was more than $250,000 10 years ago, which I am sure has increased in today’s market, and involved sweat equity as well. Advertisers do not pay in advance; they generally pay 30-90 days after publication.

• If you are printing 10,000 or fewer issues, your printer will most likely use offset printing which will be more pricey.

• As a general rule, at a minimum you should have 40% advertising; that means, you need to sell more than one page of advertising to support two pages of text. It is also tricky to maintain the independence of your content from your advertising—especially in the beginning.

• A large issue with any magazine eventually becomes the content. It is very challenging to fill a publication with new relevant information month after month. You may have enough content initially to get out the first issue, but you need to think long-term. Are your contributors going to be able to provide content month after month…The odds are not in your favor.

• The most important thing to remember when starting, is that the production of a magazine is a full-time job. You cannot produce a successful magazine in a weekend. There is so much more behind the scenes than just throwing in some pictures and dropping in text in a layout program. It is like a jigsaw puzzle each month trying to get everything to line up and balance out, word counts, content issues, and ad sizes to work around. Not to mention all the time it takes to edit articles. You can’t produce a national magazine with typos and run-on sentences.

• As mentioned in previous posts, newspapers and publications are folding countrywide. It was a very tough year for most publications. What we are seeing now is a lot of advertisers that are not paying their bills. You will need to look into some legal representation to make sure that you get paid. Otherwise, the printing bill is coming out of your pockets. And, most printers will require a personal guarantee of printing charges, which means it is your house, too.

There is plenty more to consider, and I am willing to help you out any way I can. I hope that some of this information is helpful. I am not trying to discourage you at all and think you have a great idea. I just wanted to point out some of the immediate issues you will be dealing with and the reality of the magazine business. Please feel free PM me and I will help any way I can. I certainly can get you in touch with a great printer and my publisher would be willing to talk with you if your interested in picking his brain.

Good luck…and I look forward to reading about your progress.

Like the enthusiasm db71 but:

1. This is not the time to start a new magazine.

2. This is definitely not the time to start a new magazine in the performance-boat world.

3. There is one continuously successful consumer publication in the world that says "fu" to advertisers. It's called Consumer Reports. All the rest walk a sometimes delicate line.

4. Unless you are Us or People or something huge, subscription revenues and newsstand sales barely cover the cost of postage.

5. New-boat sales drive advertising in boating publications. "Fix-up-your-existing-ride" publications, however well done, face an uphill battle in securing advertising revenue.

6. The concept has been tried. It was called "Family and Performance Boating." They had a decent run, but they're gone.

Lest you think I am protecting turf as a writer for Powerboat for the past 15 years—and if I had a dollar for every magazine that was going to put PB out of business during those years I'd have about 20 extra bucks—I'm not. I hope you succeed, because healthy publications are indicative of healthy industries. I just want you to be aware of a few basic realities. Best of luck in your endeavor.

How is Pizza man typing since he is "banned"?

I would love to see boat shows on SPEED, like they used to have on Speedvision. I would also love to see a new magazine on performance boats. You could feature personally owned boats and do brief stories and photos (Reader's rides). Catch up to them at poker runs or busy waterways? Stay positive and go for it.

I do not feel that "new boat sales drive advertising" that would be like saying new car sales drive advertising in the car magazines. Now certain formats that will drive advetising like powerboat and in the car world car and driver (which I would consider similar formats)

The advertising thing keeps coming up and understandably the magazines need the money. But upon startup if you can shoulder the printing and mailing and not charge the advetisers much and get results for them the money will be there. You cannot expect to say hey I'm starting a mag this will be the format do you want to spend premium money to advertise.

There could be lots of reasons magazines come and go family and performance boating was the magazine I thought of I liked it. But lost all of my old copies.

I think that the magazines out there now for boating do not fit into the category of what I am thinking. I live within an hour of three lakes that people on this site go to all the time with boats like bajas, fountains, donzi, and many older model things like scarab. I cannot find a boating mag that fits for these people they already have a boat and may be wanting to upgrade performance or interior or paint or even just change thier own oil, or drive oil, etc. I do not feel that it exists it may have at one time but has long went by the wayside. PB sure does not fit for these people I assume because I can only find it at one bookstore.

Maybe there are different ways to get the magazine out there like instaed of wrapping up trying to get subscriptions maybe try to flood newstands as many as possible in certain areas of the country then get subscriptions from there. Instead of dealing with mailing, postage, and potentially mad customers and advertisers before you even start.

Hey..... potential boat mag "guru." Read it again. God gave you two eyes and one keyboard.

Wow, Midocean, lighten up.

Never claimed guru status. Just some experience in the magazine world, newspapers and (yuck) trade magazines before that.

Read this entire thread several times. What did I miss, exactly?

To a degree, I actually echoed the sentiments of the other person on this thread who has some publishing experience.

Db71, no offense intended if any was taken. Follow your heart and your ambition. But reading through this, and having a little experience in the magazine and newspaper publishing field, I just offered my take.

Db71,

One more thing before MidOcean jumps down my throat ... "flooding" newsstands is really expensive and, if you don't have the correct "sell through" for a given outlet, they bump you. It's just plain ugly.

As for what you feel about new-boat sales driving in boating magazines, it simply isn't correct, or hasn't been proven correct. Every "lifestyle" publication in the boating world, from Voyaging (yachts) to Xtreme Boats (high-perf) eventually, after saying it wouldn't, had to include new boat evaluations, previews, "Boath of the Month" or some other way to get new boats into their pages. Why?

Because there simply isn't enough aftermarket advertisiing, and forget non-endemic ads because boating mags don't have the circulation to make the cut for those guys like, to support a boating magazine without the boat builders throwing in. And they want you, the publisher, to showcase their products.

The car magazine comparision doesn't work because car magazines thrive on non-endemic advertising, mean ads not related to automobiles. Want to find a major Lexux ad campaign. Don't look at Car and Driver. Check out Vanity Fair.

Anyway, contrary to what Midocean might have you believe I don't claim to have the answers. But I've been around long enough to have learned a couple of things, and I hope they help you.

You know what might work for you rather than print with your idea? An electronic weekly newsletter, which would eliminate production costs and circulation costs.

Best of luck.

Matt,

Take a pill! I was telling DB to re-read your post... as in--you have more mag experience than anyone on these boards... I thought it incredibly arrogant and stupidly naive for him to question your advice... I was calling him the GURU.. sarcastically of course..

Sorry you took it the wrong way. You know I respect your position in the industry/ sport.

T

Thank you for calling me arrogant and stupidly niave.

The title of this thread is idea. I asked opinions and got some what I have learned is this:

If there was a mag like this there are people who would buy it.

Startup expenses may be more than expected(as with anyhting)

Some other people have tried similar things and it did not work out (there could be many reasons for this but they probaly come down to one not enough capital)

Advertising dollars are the biggest thing. Getting them and keeping them will make or break you.

All I'm trying to say about PB is they are not going to be making a bunch of changes to their system. They do not have the flexibility to change drastically at this point in existance (like the saying if it is not broke don't fix it) They are not going to change their formats or drasticallly change their advertisers or anything else for thst matter.

If you started a new format where fixing boats is the theme and you went after advetisers in this area like engine builders upholstry guys, oil companies, parts manufacturers, wholesalers etc. You could find advertisers.

If you did a build up and advertised the parts in the buildup everything from paint, glass and resin to engine parts, stereo, seats, batteries, and everything else. Maybe one boat you use this company-wholesaler-manufacturer and next boat different people.

People who buy boat magazines are consumers of other products evey person is so why you cannot advertise watches and suits in PB is beyond me. Skip can sell watches and shirts to his customers and many more so they obviously buy them. I bet over half of the people who buy powerboat have a car that could be considered luxury so why can't lexus or MB advertise there. PB should be able to fill their pages with advertisers not from the boat industry and maybe now is the time for them to make some magical deals to those companies to get them in the mag.

As for my idea the non boat advertisers would be a different type company companies like hand cleaners, tools, lawn mowers, etc you know stuff the DIY use.

I would be willing to guarantee that if I made a magazine based on DIY projects I could get advertisers( I may have to give them some free spots but I will get them then after I would get them I would be able to produce a number of leads they generated from my magazine and then be able to fit them into an advertising program that helps their company grow (no matter how big or small).

I owned a company that used to spend $30,000 to $50,000 a month to advertise locally. Now in saying that I understand there are some differences between local and national advertising. I will tell you if I did not have proven results and a certain lead cost I would not spend my money with you. Most of my reps when I told them I got nothing or not the lead cost I wanted would make excuses and then give me some line about how advertising takes time and chevrolet advertises everywhere. I called bs to these people hands down the best money I ever spent came in print ads.

AS I SAID BEFORE I AM NOT AN EDITOR, PUBLISHER, WRITER, PHOTOGRAPHER OR ANYTHING ELSE RELATED TO THE PRODUCTION OF A MAGAZINE. But I can get the advertisers and keep them (maybe at an initial cost) and I can find people to do the other stuff.

One of the top performance boating magazine experts in the country laid out the entire business in a few easy to understand paragraphs and you told him he was wrong and said that you thought there was an editorial market for project boats. He explained to you why that business model( although I don't really think you have one) was probably not going to work and he did it with a humble heart and the patience of a saint. I'm sorry DB, but i think that is arrogant considering the company you are challenging.

Who is going to advertise in your mag? How much capital to you have to start this venture? What is your business/ publishing background?

I think everyone here would love nothing more than to see you make it and promote our sport in to a waiting world. I would just find it insulting if I were Matt, who graciously took his time, to have to read that "you knew better."

God help ya man.

T.

I've known the Nordskog family for two generations and I can tell you that if it can be done, they would be doing it. Their tenacity and persistence makes them a leader in almost any enterprise they attempt.

Your cross marketing ideas sound interesting but you are forgetting one very valuable point. Potential demographics. How long are you going to float these guys with free ads before the numbers rise. How many boat project guys are there? Having previously owned one of the largest Insurance Salvage/ project boat mitigation firms in the SE, I can tell you that market is shrinking... and shrinking fast. Boats that used to bring 10 to 12 k are now worth negative money... thats right... you have to pay people to take them away. I sold out in June and glad to have done so.

Food for thought.. try looking at wooden boat mag. It's probably the closest thing there is to what you're talking about.

Back to Potential Demographics. When I was the President of OPBRA, the oldest offshore racing association in the world, I used to beat my head against the wall trying to get people to sign onto our projects. People like John Crouse and Harry Shcoal tried to explain that the market isn't that big but I was Stupidly naive and arrogant.. We are a niche and it is what it is. The general public just cant relate to what we do.

Look at the producers of Miami Vice who felt compelled to cut the Offshore Racing scenes from their theatrical release.... why? because the focus groups just didn't get it. Those scenes tested badly.

This is not a consumer supported sport. This is a member supported sport. It is what it is.

T

First, my bad, Michael (Midocean). I've taken a chill pill ... OK, in the form of a glass of wine. To be followed by another before I take my 12-year-old daughter, my girlfriend and her 6-year-old daughter bowling (what was I thinking) later.

At the start of this thread I said liked db72's enthusiasm. I still do. And my advice or observation is far from the final word on magazines. What I do know:

1. The marine industry has taken a beating.
2. Our segment of the industry has taken a beating.
3. Print media is taking a beating.

There is a notion that print is taking a beating in terms of reduced advertising revenues because the Internet is taking those dollars. Not so. Those dollars simply are not being spent--anywhere. If they were all going online, this site would be flush with display ads. It's not.

While print is being heavily challenged by the Internet (and after 10 years of managing Boats.com's editorial, plus launching speedonthewater.com as part of BoaterMouth.com, I am huge believe in the Internet), print is not dead.

So db71, if you really believe in your vision, go for it. Yeah, it will suck if you fail. But it will suck even more if you don't try and wonder if you could have succeeded.

But to save a small fortune (because if you start with a large one and open a print magazine with your business/publishing model I'm afraid that's what you'll end up with), I suggest doing something online.

Best of luck.

Ok so cross promoting obviously gieco feels there is a market obviously Anheiser Busch did there are other products that do and maybe some companies products that have not been presented with the right situation. The general public is in awe and with powerboats just take one up to your local gas station and see how many comments you get (maybe not in Florida or SoCal but the rest of the country.

There is a car magazine for JDM product which are Mainly nissan parts if that is not a smal group compared to performance boaters what is There are about 5 magazines for import cars modifications on any newstand I go to right now and there are more boats in my town than rice burners.

This is an idea Obviously for every idea there are 10 (probably more like 100) people who say it will never work to every one that does. There are people here who say they would read it so there is an interest I think this site has something like 30,000 members Don't know for sure.

The business I do now there is no one in the stae of IL doing it I make plenty of money at it but there where and are people who tell me it would not work and it is not sustainable.

You say the internet is the future I do not see many more people joining this site or others just like it with the same content. People may join but it will be 25% or less than what is here now.

We could discuss this all day. I will definatly agree that the boat biz is tight margins or loss. I do believe that there is a market for a different format than what PB has to offer with the subscribers and the advertisers. You yourself said the market is changing so maybe the market for magazines is changing also.

In my experience people who have done the same thing for 20+ years usually don't change formats or direction (as they should not if it is not broke don't fix) But that does not mean that something different could not work.

Midocean,

Matt told me why he thinks this would not work gave me some examples of magazines one who has already came on here and said they where undercapitalized. Now I said the market has changed since these people tried it (everyone knows that) other variables have also changed companies may be looking for new ways to get new customers and save money times are different. I do not feel that this is a reason to insult me etc. You just published a book when people are saying that ebooks are the way of the future so I would say we agree that print is not dead.

I do not know how serious I am about this but the more I get told it would not work the more I feel I have to try it. (I have failed before so it would not crush my spirit to bad) but I will say I would probably sell everything I own before I would throw in the towel on something that I commited to.

Geico and anheiser bush pay/ paid almost nothing for their sponsorships. Pepsi/ Mtn Dew paid NOTHING for their sponsorship of Joey Podavano. Thats the deal.... these guys put a big name on the boat... gives them notoriety and the hopes of getting sponsorship down the road..... the numbers never work... money never happens. AGAIN... offshore is a member supported sport/ not sponsor supported or consumer supported. ie... without the deep pockets of boat owners, this sport would never happen..

Sorry DB, you are wrong about book publishing... E-book sales account for .6% of the market... down .7% from last year... 2000 new books hit the streets every DAY. PW(publishers weekly) reports that book publishing is one of the top ten sectors in the American economy.

Comparing a book to a magazine... two different markets... two totally different buyers. Unlike a mag, a book is an investment of time, thought and imagination for the reader and a trophy to go on a book shelf when they are done..... and that, in a nutshell, is what the e-book/ kindle/ etc. producers are having a hard time accepting. This is why the cover of a book is just as important as the 100,000 words inside.

Books... Movies... safe bets, even in this shaky economy.

AB paid real sponsorship money before Inbev's takeover.

I probably know better than to comment but I am going to throw in my .02. I know Matt and there are few around who can give better advice on a subject like this. Listen to what he has to say without trying to out think it. Everyone likes to think the boat world is more than it is. If you added up all the companies that use a Chevy based engine (4, 6, and 8 cyl) in the country (mercury, marinepower, volvo, etc) they only add up to about 3% of the engines produced by chevy. that is why what you see as a car mag catering to a small segment they still outnumber boaters. the marine world has taken a beating in part due to the economy but also because as a small industry the return on investment is next to nothing. you can give away advertising or what ever other gimick but it all comes down to how many issues you can sell month after month and as Matt has said it is tough to keep the numbers up after the honey moon is over. Ask Matt if Powerboat would be successful if they started it today.

I was actually saying that books are not dead like people say.

You seem to have a bone to pick with me and I have no idea why.

I highly doubt that AB and geico spend no money Do you think Haggin is using Geico to get notority. If AB did not pay real money than they would still have their name on boats. And the boats would still be racing.

I have way more old boat magazines than I do boating books I buy books all the time I usually read them and that is it. I would reference an old mag with how to articles a lot more than I would reference story that may or may not be completly true. Let me give you a few that come to mind. I have long since lost this mag but I had a Family and Perfomance boat Where they took old 454mpi's and put a edelbrock kit on it. I also remember an article PB did with the graphics the LIT cig. Which somone here has.

nope... Bernie little paid as a boat owner and he admitted it was a loosing proposition. Bud light / budweiser was Auggie 4 with Jeff S. Again, owner supported.

I love performance boating magazines and i hope they never go away, but it appears the only people who show interest in all of our boating joys, are already boaters. We seem to not be able to attract the attention of non-boaters, which i just don't understand. I guess my point is that we can only rely on us. We all fight and bicker ( i have no idea if that's spelled right ), but when push comes to shove,we're all we've got. Every performance boater is so competitive that we argue about everything, and you know what, it really doesn't matter. If it wasn't for all of us, their would be no performance boating

I have no bone with you... don't know you. Again, you think you know... you disagreed with Matt about publishing models... and you disagree with me about offshore racing sponsorships. So, i've done my best to try to convince a you... help you out actually... but you obviously don't need our help... you've got it all figured out..

Best wishes and good luck mu friend.

Bravo... give this guys a cigar... or at least a cigarette.

I disagreed with Matt on something he has not done exactly, different format different time period. I disagreed with you in saying that the sponsors pay money. Now I have no proof of either of these things but I can only assume that if boats that raced when they had a sponsorship and don't when it is gone it is a good bet they got some money. The other we may never know.

When do I start ??? :drink:

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and I can't leave out this work of art !!! :drink:

http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/32hydra


ADVERTISING:

Dave P gave me the best advice when I said I wanted to offer Advertising on my websites. With the amount of traffic brought in after each event , I thought it was worth a shot.

He said, "Keep it cheap and sell a heap !!!"

He couldn't have been more right ! :drink:

With all of the events and shop tours I covered last year, even in this economy, I have more than doubled my list of advertisers and sponsors.

So if you plan on getting the paint, and accessories etc people involved, try getting more for less.

I would rather have over 30 Advertisers at a lesser rate than try to get 5 or 6 at a premium. It seems to be working !

At $250 for 1 year, majority see it as a no brainer..... :)

Best of luck !

Let me know if there is anything I can offer....

Guess how many pages of AB advertising Powerboat got in all the years it covered Miss Budweiser?

One.

Don't misunderstand db72, I think readers would LOVE that magazine. But given the scope of the aftermarket high-performance boat product market, even if you had every company in that market advertising—and from an earlier post I understood you're not interested in that model ("fu to advertisers," if I recall) it wouldn't be enough. So I'm not sure how to monetize it.

Your subscriptions are going to have to be pretty pricey, and whether you believe it or not getting on newsstands costs a ton of money.

One more thing to add to the of those to consider: "Excellent" sell-through of a consumer magazine on the newsstand is about 30 percent. That means for every one someone picks up and buys, two get tossed in the dumpster.

Not exactly green—in any sense.