Dry Sump 6 drive Torco or Amsoil gear oil?
 

Having owned and maintained 2 different sets of 6 drives, I always went with Mercurys recommendation of using Torco MTF in the gearcases. While at the Miami Boat show ran into Bob Teague and got to discussing gear oils and such. He didnt have very kind things to say about Torco, and said he runs an Amsoil 10w40 MCF oil in his drives. Yes, I know he is sponsored by Amsoil. I have a lot of respect for Bob, and I doubt he would recommend something that is going to perform worst than Torco just because he is sponsored by them. Was wondering if anyone else has tried Amsoil in their dry sump 6's

i ran the amsoil. also ran there synthetic race oil. switched back to Torco for the gear cases and Brad Penn for the engine. mostly cause of pricing, seocd found no performance gain either way. so if you change oil often, i couldn't justify the added cost - almost 50% more for Amsoil.

also the Torco is not a full synthetic compared to Amsoil. I've also noticed here in Florida with high humidity that 100% synthetic products seem to be adversely affected by the humidity.

i've also run Fina's gear oil meeting the same specs with no issues and costs less than half the torco.

Bob is telling you straight about amsoil.Vern Gilbert tore Bobs race drives apart since it had been on the 36 skater for 2 years with only amsoil in them.Vern told me he was shocked to see how good every thing looked.
I run amsoil in all my #6 drives.

I only run Amsoil! MCF 10w-40 . That stuff rocks, if you sign up online you get a discount on pricing and it's on your doorstep within 1-2 days!

No mineral oil will compare with amsoil synthetic, if your running #6 drives the price should not be a factor. They only hold 5-6 quarts. I run amsoil in everything and years ago was the only way my #3 big shafts would live running 1100 hp through them. Tear down inspections give the best feed back. As for as water any synthetic will separate faster than mineral oil.

We recommended Torco MTF to Merc for use on our drysump drives.

I have never tested amsoil for foaming (not good in a drysump drive) aereated oil is not good for lubrification. We only ran the torco on the dyno and in the raceboats. We run a drysump tank so it is easy to check the oil to see how it is doing.

A good rule of thumb is, synthetics are twice the cost half as good. We have had a lot of trouble with synthetic oils. They break apart from the base oil and the addatives leaving a chewing gum like muck behind to clog our pick up screen and spraybars.

With high hp not just 525's you might want to run a little heavier mineral oil. Breaking in the drives is a good idea also. Do not just go out there and leave it at part throttle or full throttle give it a break once and a while to cool down and burnish the gears in a little. Full throttle / cut throttle / full throttle etc.... 15 minutes.

pat W

other than having someone look at your gears, have you guys ever done or looked for tests other than Amsoil's touted ball bearing test.

i'm not anti-sythetic, just that sometimes just because it costs twice as much doesn't mean it's twice as good.

i use sythetics in some situtations where i have seen a difference, just can't justify the costs in some uses if there isn't proof its that much better?

Shifter, what do you recommend for a wet sump 6 drive?
I know, a little off topic,
Greg

All merc drives are wetsump or wetsump with a pressure pump. The coversions we make are drysump, scavenge and pressure pumps with a separate tank.

The bell ray works really well for pleasure boats. If you get water in it it will seperate and you can drain the water out and fix the problem. I have yet to see anything else do that.

pat W

Thanks Pat, I will look into the Bel-Ray. Good to know I could run Torco MTF also. Bel-Ray seems to be available in quarts only, a bit expensive for an 18 quart oil change!

Bel-Ray Gear Saver
Hypoid Gear Oil
SAE Grades: 80W-90, 85W-140

I do not doubt Amsoil as a quality product, but I have to wonder how much wear did they expect to see with only 525's on Number Sixes? I would expect them to look new.

I don't go by manufactures test,, real life real broken gears and burnt up bearings. In the #3s with 1100+ I was going through gears in under 20 hrs.I also believe in OEM recommended parts and lube,but they weren't paying for the repairs and yes I know they were not made to handle that rated HP. 6s are only rated for 1200 and look what we run through them.
After installing 4-5 different gear lubes I tried amsoil and never looked back started breaking prop shafts.Solved that problem by making large shafts for the 3s and 4s. Then we would inspect after 100hrs with perfect gears and bearings.The drives also ran 40-50* cooler with amsoil. Im running Torco in one drive and amsoil in the other and will let Randy with Marine Drives make the decision which works the best.
The #3 drives have sold on this site at least three times and have only had a gear ratio change and the owner sold the 1-1 ratio upper gears that were removed. We shall see.
MY vette and Mercedes came from the factory with synthetics installed,,just saying. :drink:

Thought you was out of the dry sump business??

He is.:kiss:

That's a shame what a great talent!! My boat had his drives in it and Tony needed them to make the race season.
:lolhit:

I still take care of my customers...right Gary and Tony.....

I do not work on 6's anymore. I pushed that part of the shop to Vern in Havasu. We still machine housings and stock our drysump parts for our customers.

I like the lighter wt oils for less power. Mobil 1 works just fine in drives cheap and available and we run straight penzoil 30 engine oil in our transmissions.

We raced the mtf because it was a gl6 oil. Our drysumps ran 140 deg max on a 100 deg day. When we checked the wet merc it was 330 deg on the top of the housing.

pat W

[QUOTE=HotPursuit;3049812]I don't go by manufactures test,, real life real broken gears and burnt up bearings. In the #3s with 1100+ I was going through gears in under 20 hrs.I also believe in OEM recommended parts and lube,but they weren't paying for the repairs and yes I know they were not made to handle that rated HP. 6s are only rated for 1200 and look what we run through them.
After installing 4-5 different gear lubes I tried amsoil and never looked back started breaking prop shafts.Solved that problem by making large shafts for the 3s and 4s. Then we would inspect after 100hrs with perfect gears and bearings.The drives also ran 40-50* cooler with amsoil. Im running Torco in one drive and amsoil in the other and will let Randy with Marine Drives make the decision which works the best.
The #3 drives have sold on this site at least three times and have only had a gear ratio change and the owner sold the 1-1 ratio upper gears that were removed. We shall see.
MY vette and Mercedes came from the factory with synthetics installed,,just saying. :drink:[/QUOT

All I know is that there is a reason all Corvettes, Vipers, Cadillacs, Secret Service Vehicles, War Equipment and Commercial Aircraft have Synthetics ONLY in them! There also only used to be AM radio, but now look, much improved better products out there! Technology is amazing!

Agree the wet sumps ran much hotter than the dry sumps.My wet sumps use to smoke after a hard run!!
I need to check the temp difference this year between torco and amsoils mcf!! Thanks for the replies.

[QUOTE=07DominatorSS;3049965] :ernaehrung004:

For higher hp people, like the turbine guys or nasty piston engines, I heard that some of them are running merc gear lube in the 6's because it is a little more shock resistant? Eats up a little more power, but is easier on the drives?

Since i switched to amsoil,the tops of my drives do not show signs of heat like they did with the torco.

Randy @ Marine Drive Inc runs Torco MTF in all his #6s he ships and so does Craig C :drink:

Keith Nunez runs amsoil in his drives because Randy gets paid to do the rebuilds. :lolhit:

I don't think you can run anything higher than 50wt in the dry sumps due to the pump and spray nozzles. Wet sumps are a different story I ran 90-140 wt.

Amsoil is a fine oil. I think Mobil 1 is the best personally.

I've been following this thread and learning as I go... and I am looking for the right drive gear oil for the "antique" in my old Donzi (1966 16' Ski/Sporter with Eaton Series Sixteen Drive, Engine is Hi Perf Ford 289, 270hp built by Dave Zeuschel in 66). Didn't mean to hijack the thread or take it off topic, but there are more people in this thread who really appear to know what they are talking about. If anyone can offer a little help with recommending the right stuff, hope you don't mind shooting a PM or email my way. Looking at Torco RGO, Redline HD Shock Proof and Amsoil.

thanks for the help

Ilmor has recommends Mobil 1 Synthetic in their engines & Torco for their new dry sump drives. Off topic but just sharing!

I have run the Torco in my #6's for 8 years with no problems
37' Outerlimits with 800hp motors.

True but.... two years, and they werent doin Poker Runs they were racing, much more of a beatting so it almost makes up for it. Just my thought.

For what it's worth, Ilmor never tested the Indy drives with anything other than Torco MTF. They fully admit that there may be something better; Ilmor had plenty of development work to do without adding oil testing to the agenda.

Since you have two Indy drives, maybe you could install temp gauges and be our guinea pig... :drink:

It seems to me that there may be more than one "best choice" for a particular drive, given the comment's about Teague's 525/#6 combination versus others who are running much bigger power.

Things are NEVER simple. :picard1:

Anyone try running Ali Syn? All of the tunnel boat guys are running this stuff.

http://syntheticlubricants.aerospace...ne/progear-21?

Imco recommends ONLY Torco RTF gear oil for their SCX drives.
Any experience with it Pat?