Things have gone from bad to worse, need help!
 

I brought my boat to a new performance marina with good reputation and refferences. It went in for gimble rings, rev limiters and tuning. One of the mechanics is a member on this board so my info will be acurate.

The problem is with the motors, 502's with prochargers. These motors ran great prior to bringing the boat in, but I did have an issue with flooding in rough water so I asked them to look into it. They did not like the way the fuel system was done so they re-plumbed, added high flow fuel filters, and adjusted the front floats, there were too high. When they were finished, and had done their water test they called me down for a test ride, as per my request. I get down there and before starting the motors I checked the oil. Port motor had water in the oil. It was determined that it was a head gasket. The gasket was replaced and I went down today for the sea trial. On my way, it is 1.5hr. ride, I get a call on my cell phone that they may have another problem and maybe I should wait to come down. With only a 1/2 hr. left I said I would finish the trip. When I got there they told me that there was oil coming out of the exhaust and blue smoke. They did a compression check and 3 cylinders were bad. 1 had 60lbs, another 25, and the other 0. The rest were at 145.

This motor was new last season and has 88 hrs. on it. The other motor is the same, 502 marine crate with 435 hp. and 180 hrs with no problems. They said the motors ran great before the head gasket blew. When they had the motor apart they also said everthing internally was good, pistons, rings, cylinder walls etc. There was no water in any of the cylinders. Then they put it back together and took it for one more sea trial before I came down and now 3 cylinders are bad. The owner left before the compression test was finished so I have not had the opportunity to discuss it with him.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might have caused this? The last sea trial they took was short and only took it up to 4000 rpm. I do not know at what rpm but the motor did stall during this run. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Is the head that was removed the one with the low compression problems? Did they run the engine before you arrived? How much water was in the oil. No oil change after a head gasket replacement?

Zero compression?!! Man, you'd have to leave a sparkplug out, a hung valve, or have a hole in a piston to have zero compression. I'd sure like to see a leak down test done, it could be interesting...

Ken...you have mail.

Ken,
Last year when I sold my boat I had the same problem when it came to a compression test. All the cylinders were giving a different compression #(most were low) and I had to have the heads replaced due water reversion. Problem solved, that may/maynot be your problem, but check it out.
Good luck.
Gerard

mrgoodwrench,

I am assuming they replaced both head gaskets and also secured heads with studs. The oil was changed. There was less than 1 qt. of water in the oil. Yes they ran the boat before I arrived. They said it was a short ride and did not bring rpms above 4000. The low compression was 2 on starboard side and 1 port side.

As stated before engines ran great before head gaskets were replaced, and everything looked good upon visual inspection during repair.

They may have cut corners and did not readjust the rockers when it went back together. DO NOT take it apart before a leakdown test is done. And to be safe I would loosen or remove the rockers and then do the leakdown test. 0 compression is VERY VERY hard to do.

I'll take "improper rocker arm adjustment" for a thousand, Alex.

Just a guess of course, but that's what it sounds like to me also.

DAVE

I may be wrong but I don't think the rocker arms are adjustable. If they are, could this have caused additional damage? What will the leakdown test tell me?

Thanks

You guys are missing the true problem. REMEMBER they adjusted the front float level ( it was too high) this leaned out the motor. You will find that you have three pistons with different size holes in them - one small hole (65 psi) one bigger hole (25 psi) and one large hole (0 psi) If you keep having this shop do your work you soon will have nothing left. IF YOU HAVE HOLES IN YOUR PISTONS IT IS THEIR FAULT NOT YOURS AND THEY SHOULD PAY FOR THE TOTAL REPAIR!!!!!!

If your valvetrain is stock, its not adjustable. But 0 compression usually requires a hole in a piston or a broken or badly bent valve. I'm not really buying the "we only took it to 4,000 rpm's" story. I wonder if they came off plane too fast and got some water reversion, which will break lots of cool stuff. Good Luck, I hope its something reasonably cheap!

I hadn't thought of that, I'll bet Tinkerboater is right, that scenario makes a lot of sense. Lean and boost are not words that go together. If they did burn your pistons due to their carb adjustments, they owe you a motor.

I was figuring a blower motor would have roller rockers, studded heads, etc., and need adjustment every time the heads are disturbed. Lean could be a problem also. That is why a leak down test is crucial. If the air leaks past the valves it is a valve and not a piston problem, if it leaks into the crankcase it is pistons. BUT...if it doesnt leak at all then they had the valves set too tight and there may be no further damage. Mind you the last scenario is unlikely but if there is a chance the motor doesn't need to be pulled down it is well worth the time. I know it is a hike for you but you need to be intimately involved from this point forward. If the heads come off you need to get down there and see the damage-I would also advise pictures in case they don't want to do the right thing.

Keep us posted and feel free to email me direct if you need help-I do Garage liability claims for a living.

Thanks everyone for the help.

I think we're looking at melted pistons. Probably when they put the heads back on they did not check the timing, or set it wrong.

I will put money on the holes in the pistons. REMEMBER THE OIL IN THE EXHAUST. Leaking or not properly seated valves won't cause oil in the exhaust. The float level adjustment can make a BIG adjustment in your fuel mixture...

That is true, but a valve guide with no valve stem in it will. Or it could have been unburned fuel from the dead cylinders-which will look black and leave a sheen.

Tinkerboater has a hammer, because I think he hit the nail on the head. What type of head gaskets did they use? Are the 2 low compression cylinders next to each other? Blown head gasket.
I would definitly try to be there when they pull it apart and get pictures. They may come in handy if they don't step up to plate and fix there screwup, if this indead is the problem.
I agree with IF YOU HAVE HOLES IN YOUR PISTONS IT IS THEIR FAULT NOT YOURS AND THEY SHOULD PAY FOR THE TOTAL REPAIR!!!!!!
Keep use posted! Sorry to hear about the bad news.:(

If they argue with you about who will pay for the repair and that they are not at fault then pay for it with a credit card and then contest the bill. Let them take you to court. Other thing you could do is to pay for it with a check and then the first thing you do after you have the repaired boat (water tested before you write the check ) ( you just wrote the check ) run to bank before they can get there and put a hold on that check. (make sure the bank is open before writing the check) Let them take you to court. If it comes to this level you need to get us ( OSO members ) involved to make life HELL for them... GOOD LUCK STEVE W.

Probably better to use a check than credit card.

I would bet Tinkerboater is right. Don't forget about other motor it is also lean. It needs to be checked.

Ken you also stated the motor stalled during a run. Did the boat come off plane at that point. If so water could have rushed past the exhaust baffle and right into the engine. When the motor was restarted did it fire right up or was it hard to turn over If water was in the cylinders it would be hard to start at first. I learned this one the hard way.

Blueman, good point. I forgot we were talking about twins. I bet the plugs in that motor are whiter than white. That would definitely be a tell tale sign. Hopefully they will work on it today and you will have some good news from the boat shop.
The joys of hi performance!

Ken,
Again sorry to hear your tale of woe. I hope you get it worked out asap. Keep me informed, you got the number.
Chris

I spoke with the owner today. The motor has not been dissassembled yet but he says his mech. test drove the boat with the exhaust closed and probably melted the pistons. He is going to completely tear down the motor and rebuild. The other motor will get compression check, leakdown and heads pulled for inspection, and repaired if needed, at his expense.

Although this was a totally inexcusable, irresponsible, and down right stupid mistake, I commend the owner for his honesty and integrity.

Unless other issues arise, I will not name this marina.

Thanks to all who replied.

Ken, if you are satisfied with the results in the end I see no reason not to post the name of the marina. I would not hesitate to do business with anyone who stands behind their work lilke this owner is proposing to do. Obviously, this was a rare occurence. If it weren't, and the marina always fixed their mistakes, they would be forced out of business in short order. Bottom line - anyone can make a mistake, it's how they respond to the mistake that matters.:cool:

Well GOOD for them!!!!!! stepping up like that!!!!! Shame it happened at all, But at least they arent trying to dodge responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!! Best of luck to you,hope it all works out!!:D

Ken, Glad to hear things are moving in a positive direction.
Laster said; "Bottom line - anyone can make a mistake, it's how they respond to the mistake that matters." and I couldnt agree more. Im a QS manager for a company with 100 employees. People are going to make mistakes, I do it all the time. What makes a successful person or business is the way in which a problem is delt with. This shop has very obviously stepped up to the plate and is rectifying the matter in very proffesional manner.

I would not be afraid to do business with a company that made a mistake, we all do. The end result is what counts and that you have not had to fight them about it. I think they steped up to the plate and are also checking the other motor. GOOD BUSINESS


Good luck :) :)

Sorry to hear it Ken, but it looks like you are being taken care of.
Here is hoping your boat will be repaired in time for May 1!!

I foolishly dropped new engines into my Sonic and seem to have developed problems of my own now. (Aaaaaarrrrg!)

Dido on that Too Old. Ken, it looks like you picked a great place to do business. Sometimes you never really know until something like this happens. It still sucks, but at least it sounds like they are going to take care of you. All of us will make mistakes, but some can't admit it.
Good luck and let us know the out come!;)

done many of crate motors with prochargers- probably know what your problem is call me to discuss- make sure they pickle your motors before they rust up- call (813) 247-3049 at Addictive Watersports and ask for me- Al. We have had our ups and downs with them and know what you are going thru. Call me

I take you have silent choice because of the term closed exhaust- this will not cause a piston to melt down at 4000 or 5000. If no one knows what the problem is nothing is going to be fixed- I have an idea of what your problem is- built many of supercharge motors- call me...

Offshore addiction:

It's great that you are willing to talk to Ken and help him with his problems.:D But why not post what you think the problem may be??:confused: Maybe others can benefit from your knowledge before they have a costly meltdown.

if it is too long of an explanation, and you are too busy(as many of us are) to post it, maybe Ken can post what you told him.

TTT... What's the latest?