Ruben Bermudez

From what I see, these two organizations use two different methods of controlling CHEATING.

In SBI, you put your MONEY where your MOUTH is.

Think your competitor is cheating?
For $1,500 they'll tear him down ALL THE WAY,
just like they did in the old days of motorsports.

He's cheating, ta get your money back,
and you're a schoolyard hero.

He ain't, the rest of the kids are gonna stand around and make fun of you, and you lost your dough.

Best cheating story ever...

One competitor walks up to another and says,
"I KNOW you're cheating".
Second says,
"how do YOU know?"
First answers,
" Because *I'M* CHEATING,
and *I* can't KEEP UP WITH YOU".

Kent Perroux

Screamingdemon -

Maybe I understand TX2 position more that it appears. But maybe I am not explaining myself sufficiently.

1) Don't talk about replacing the leaders. I don't think anyone could run SBI like Carbonel. His is not a club, but a personal venture. Who would take his place and have the connections he has? APBA-Offshore is a privately held company, only the board of directors will determine the leader.

2) Trying to start a new group for Offshore is ludicrous. All it does is splinter the sport.

3) Lets talk about things that will increase the sponsorship for teams, racing parity, and get more people into affordable racing.



Now, things we should discuss and can change:

1) If you watch the races from the beach, what do you like/dislike? What would you like to see different?

2) If you watch from a boat, what do you like/dislike?

3) If you want to race, what things are keeping you from racing?


I'll answer these from my perspective.

1) If you watch from the beach, there should be ample parking and a lot of race items intertwined with the viewing public. Dayona was GREAT. An addition to this might be to have some signs out showing what radio station was broadcasting the race. Also additions are to have some race teams having their boats and tents set up along the beach for the public to see/talk to the racers.

2) Watching from a boat is great, but it would be nice to be able to pull up to a vendor for t-shirts, posters, etc. Also it would be nice to have a map available for local ramps, charges, ets. Ft. Meyers ramps charged around $30 to launch and $10 to park. A scheule of recommended ramps with charges and amenities would be nice.

3) What keeps me from racing? Other than my schedule crunch and finishing my MBA, it is the cost of racing with the present formats. So instead of racing, I help friends out when I can.

Goodfella

Hey Ruben!
You hit the nail right on the head! Your not cheating until you get caught right? I am gonna use that cheating story alot THANKS! It's just you really have to
have some smarts in APBA to bend the rules to your advantage. In SBI you just do what everybody else in the class is doing. APBA tech inspectors take alot more time on each boat that wins in it's class. SBI just hands out the checks and the checkered flags which mostly go to the boat manufacture that sponsors his series.

Boat Girl

Kent- I am certainly not an expert here, I am very new to the sport, but in my short time this is what I have observed...Not all boats carrying #1 in SBI are Fountains...You specifically mentioned the F2 class, which is near and dear to me, the team that earned the F2-1 title in 2001 and proudly display the F2-1 is none other than a canopied Cigarette, not to mention it was their rookie season...Congrats again to Serge and Michel...PS they also run APBA...And in flat water in NY last Sept. 9 they went by all the Fountains like they were standing still...Now if you had mentioned Super V I dont think I could argue that point with you, a majority if not all of them are Fountains...But dont say that SBI just gives checks to Fountains, maybe its not true, maybe it could be that Fountain does build an awesome product...and that the guys that race them are top notch...By all of you saying everyone in SBI is cheating you are basically saying that the drivers and t-men cant win without cheating...hmm...Does that mean guys like Steve David, Art Lilly, Dave Woods, Mike Seebold, Dave Branch, Joe Sgro, Peter Meyer, Bob Oliver, Gary Ballough were all cheating in Miami, because everyone does...Those are some pretty talented and respected men in boat racing and not just offshore and some of them even run APBA...As far as putting canopies on F2 boats, I believe the idea behind it was for safety and not necessarily for speed...Ask Scott Mander if he feels a bit safer this year with a canopy...my first year, my first big race was Nationals in the Bahamas, Scott was injured when he and his driver were ejected from their uncanopied F2 Cigarette...T2X wouldnt you agree,safety is the idea behind the canopies...there is nothing wrong with adding a little safety to the sport, as long as you do it right...designs need to progress so the sport progresses...granted it may cut some people out because of the cost, but lets face it racing, any type of racing, is not cheap...but if you look at the ultimate price it sure makes the money look nominal...

Goodfella just a stupid question for ya, if everyone does what everybody else is doing, is it really cheating...you know because everyone is doing it...You are a parts dealer, you tell me if these guys are cheating...

Sorry guys, I must of woken up on the wrong side of the bed(or broom) whichever...this AM

PS...Reuben, I agree, get involved in the sport...I did...maybe a little too much, it had costs I never expected...

snglestack

boat girl well said saftey first if ya cant run wit da big dogs stay on the porch

Goodfella

BG,
Here's your answer to your stupid question:
There is a thing called a rule book that gets published by
the sanctioning body. That has the engine rules in it for
each class. If everybody is not building there engines to
that specific format then the sanctioning body should
penalize every boat in that class. The boats should be inspected with a fine tooth comb after every race just like NASCAR. If that would ever happen Mr. Carbonell would not get paid and not be able to eat, becaues the boat manufacture that sponsors his endeavor would not be legal. So they should just flush the engine rule book down the tiolet.

Ruben Bermudez

Goodfella-

Lemme clarify this for ya...
Mr. Carbonell lets THE RACERS POLICE THEMSELVES.
And they do it QUITE well,
goin' as far as telling one another what to do
to add a few RPM and MPH.

(actually been the recipient of this type of advice...)

See, RACERS don need no sanctioning body interfering
with their FUN, OR building their engines.

And, if you wanna BEAT the best and the fastest,
ya gotta be there to run with 'em.

No.
I DON"T want one large boatracing sanctioning body,
it would mean I'd haveta race with all those kids who couldn't fight their own battles, and called the principal to do it for them.

Boat Girl

Ruben- Well said, the boats may not be exactly like the rule book, and I think instead of calling it a rule book they should call it guidelines...Mr. Carbonell does allow the racers to police themselves and they are very good at it...he also has inspectors to keep it honest...and the boats are inspected...I think SBI racers should be commended, they keep the competition tight and help eachother out when needed...They arent winning races because they are crying that the other boat didnt have the right stickers on it when it finished the race, I always thought that the spirit of racing was run what ya brung, and I think SBI does that in this way, run what ya brung, safely and within reason to the other boats you are competing against...It seems to work for them, I have seen some nasty spins, flips and collisions in the past 2 years, this being only my 3rd season and everyone has walked away with minor or few injuries...

Goodfella- as for the answer to my "first" question, I really wasnt looking for one, but can you really call it cheating when everybody is doing the same thing...If you ever get a chance to look at the speeds and the lap times you will see not too much as far as variation...not one boat completely dominates another...Well, at least I didnt see any discrepancy that stood out...You would think that if one boat was totally dominate that it would show on the score sheet...numbers dont lie...

CAP071

I'm booked for marathon! Can't wait. I was told just follow the crowd there? Will I need to buy tickets there? I'm driving up from Key West. Is there plenty of viewing area?

Ruben Bermudez

Goodfella-

Mr. Carbonell gets paid by doin' ONE thing VERY well,
near as I can see...

He keeps his racers HAPPY.

If the people he has racing with him
were unhappy with the rules,
They'd race somewhere else.

And from PERSONAL experience with him,
he can answer a question in one sentence,
and not make you dig thru a bunch of hubris
looking for your answer.