Attn. Fl Boaters, espeically Lee County boaters
05-04-2002, 04:05 PM
#11
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Crash you are telling me that the manatee has been happily living in the Florida waterways for 45 thats 45 million Years??Not true what did the Florida coastline look like just 20,000 years ago?? Well ill tell you it probably extended to the west 250 miles or so and east off Jacksonville Florida about 100-150 miles...
Look your Manatee either had legs and lived on dry land when the water was consumed by the Continental ice sheets, and the sea level was very low, or it was not here period..
By the way story has it they are very good cooked!!
Look your Manatee either had legs and lived on dry land when the water was consumed by the Continental ice sheets, and the sea level was very low, or it was not here period..
By the way story has it they are very good cooked!!
05-04-2002, 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by supercrash
Steve1...Sorry to dissagree...but...there are fossil records in Florida that place the Manatee there 45 million years ago....And this also bears repeating....We are the only species on the planet that has the power to protect ALL the Species...Think about it...
Steve1...Sorry to dissagree...but...there are fossil records in Florida that place the Manatee there 45 million years ago....And this also bears repeating....We are the only species on the planet that has the power to protect ALL the Species...Think about it...
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05-04-2002, 06:57 PM
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Phillip Gosse (1851) reports that "I had the pleasure of breakfasting on manatee steaks which had delicious flavour, without any oiliness." Then he goes on to describe a scene at Black River: Man sounds good to me !!
05-04-2002, 07:06 PM
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I was wondering how long it would be until SC jumped in ??? SC please tell me where you got your data ?? is that source you are quoting from a Sierra Club magazine??? just wondering ??? let me know??? Thanks
05-05-2002, 10:41 AM
#15
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OK ....buttheads...We have been through this before .....
http://wld.fwc.state.fl.us/critters/manatee.asp
Steve1...You might be on the other side of this debate...but...nobody needs stupid comments about eating Manatee...Letters about the Manatee issue have been printed in powerboat by members here...and that talk just ruins the credibility of the board on the issue...
http://wld.fwc.state.fl.us/critters/manatee.asp
Steve1...You might be on the other side of this debate...but...nobody needs stupid comments about eating Manatee...Letters about the Manatee issue have been printed in powerboat by members here...and that talk just ruins the credibility of the board on the issue...
05-05-2002, 01:34 PM
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Crash First off it is you who needs creditability; Secondly I personally was not real happy about that piece on the Manatee Steak! In reality I was looking for an old Island recipe for a Stew or Curry but that was all I could find sorry about that!
05-06-2002, 07:46 AM
#18
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DanB,
Thanks for the update, please go to www.standing-watch.org which is based in Lee County, and see what the STM Club has in mind for your waterways. Standing-Watch is BIGGEST boater/outdoor recreation/Property rights group in Fl. and they NEED your membership $$. We also belong to CFW, (Citizens for Florida Waterways, www.cfwbrevard.org ). We NOW have the attention of alot lawmakers in Fl. and THAT is where we can make a difference!!
The laws are outdated and written by ECO-RADICAL Lobbing efforts, that don't really reflect good sound science and the general Fl. citizen's position on these issues! We can sit here and debate these issues with ignorant people, OR we can get organizied, FUNDED, and make changes in the law, that will LIMIT the amount of influence that groups like the STM Club can have!! We are off and running, BUT, we NEED YOUR HELP, (Another plug for $$). Rest assured, that we, (CFW and Standing Watch) will APPEAL this latest injustice, and continue to fight the STM Club and the FFWCC, and try to help the Manatee @ the same time.
MD
Thanks for the update, please go to www.standing-watch.org which is based in Lee County, and see what the STM Club has in mind for your waterways. Standing-Watch is BIGGEST boater/outdoor recreation/Property rights group in Fl. and they NEED your membership $$. We also belong to CFW, (Citizens for Florida Waterways, www.cfwbrevard.org ). We NOW have the attention of alot lawmakers in Fl. and THAT is where we can make a difference!!
The laws are outdated and written by ECO-RADICAL Lobbing efforts, that don't really reflect good sound science and the general Fl. citizen's position on these issues! We can sit here and debate these issues with ignorant people, OR we can get organizied, FUNDED, and make changes in the law, that will LIMIT the amount of influence that groups like the STM Club can have!! We are off and running, BUT, we NEED YOUR HELP, (Another plug for $$). Rest assured, that we, (CFW and Standing Watch) will APPEAL this latest injustice, and continue to fight the STM Club and the FFWCC, and try to help the Manatee @ the same time.MD
05-06-2002, 08:23 AM
#19
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Here is CFW's response to the Judge's ruling,
The Administrative Law Judge has issued his Final Order in the Brevard Rule Challenge.
Following two weeks of hearings, during which the judge appeared to understand the regulatory abuse suffered at the hands of FFW&CC, the Petitioners were handed a complete loss.
Despite the expert testimony of fishing charter Captain Jim Ross, who told the judge that the regulations would seriously hurt his business and make a "grand slam" impossible to catch, the judge found that the regulations were not unduly burdensome.
Despite the six hour slide presentation showing that manatees are rarely found in the proposed zones, the judge found that the frequency requirement had been met.
Despite the Commission's explanation of how the proposed zones are almost exactly what Save the Manatee Club wanted in their lawsuit settlement, the judge found the similarity to be a coincidence.
Despite the expert testimony of Drs. Gerstein and Blue to the contrary, the judge found that manatees can hear slow moving boats.
Despite the expert testimony of James Wood about his propeller scar study and the differences between a tug's 60 inch propeller and a small boat's 15 inch propeller, the judge found that there's just no way to tell how large a vessel caused a particular scar.
Despite the bumbling, contradictory testimony of the FPL's tug captain, the judge found him reliable enough to prove that manatees can hear barges.
Despite proof that the Commission's witnesses acted in an unethical manner to deny Drs. Gerstein and Blue a permit to test manatee response to boats in the wild, the judge found them trustworthy enough to find that anything humans do in the water harasses manatees.
Despite testimony that satellite telemetry data was intended to track long-range migration and is only accurate to about a kilometer (0.6 miles), the judge found it to be reliable enough to restrict boating in nearly every good water-ski spot and in 1/4 mile wide strips down the length of Brevard County.
In the end, the judge abandoned the common sense he showed during the 10-day hearing, instead falling back upon the dozens of half-baked research reports with their unanimous conclusion that motorboats must be slowed. He rejected the evidence supplied by Petitioners in favor of the gutless comfort of siding with the "professionals" at FFW&CC. Despite being showed that the Commission acted beyond their powers, that the rule wouldn't help the manatee, that the rule came directly from the lawsuit settlement, that people would be hurt, and that manatees don't frequent the proposed zones, the judge ruled against us.
The people lost.
What would our Founding Fathers think about the judge's findings? Would they be troubled that such restrictive rules were handed down by unelected bureaucrats and approved by an unconcerned commission? Would they find fault with the way citizens' lives are regulated based on opinion and conjecture rather than solid understanding? Would they have a problem with having to pay taxes to support this abuse?
The Declaration of Independence lists wrongs committed by the King of England against the colonies. Some of the findings are strikingly familiar to the Petitioners. Among those: "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance" and "In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury." The solution in 1776 was to "throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." What will we do!?
Have a nice day,
MD
The Administrative Law Judge has issued his Final Order in the Brevard Rule Challenge.
Following two weeks of hearings, during which the judge appeared to understand the regulatory abuse suffered at the hands of FFW&CC, the Petitioners were handed a complete loss.
Despite the expert testimony of fishing charter Captain Jim Ross, who told the judge that the regulations would seriously hurt his business and make a "grand slam" impossible to catch, the judge found that the regulations were not unduly burdensome.
Despite the six hour slide presentation showing that manatees are rarely found in the proposed zones, the judge found that the frequency requirement had been met.
Despite the Commission's explanation of how the proposed zones are almost exactly what Save the Manatee Club wanted in their lawsuit settlement, the judge found the similarity to be a coincidence.
Despite the expert testimony of Drs. Gerstein and Blue to the contrary, the judge found that manatees can hear slow moving boats.
Despite the expert testimony of James Wood about his propeller scar study and the differences between a tug's 60 inch propeller and a small boat's 15 inch propeller, the judge found that there's just no way to tell how large a vessel caused a particular scar.
Despite the bumbling, contradictory testimony of the FPL's tug captain, the judge found him reliable enough to prove that manatees can hear barges.
Despite proof that the Commission's witnesses acted in an unethical manner to deny Drs. Gerstein and Blue a permit to test manatee response to boats in the wild, the judge found them trustworthy enough to find that anything humans do in the water harasses manatees.
Despite testimony that satellite telemetry data was intended to track long-range migration and is only accurate to about a kilometer (0.6 miles), the judge found it to be reliable enough to restrict boating in nearly every good water-ski spot and in 1/4 mile wide strips down the length of Brevard County.
In the end, the judge abandoned the common sense he showed during the 10-day hearing, instead falling back upon the dozens of half-baked research reports with their unanimous conclusion that motorboats must be slowed. He rejected the evidence supplied by Petitioners in favor of the gutless comfort of siding with the "professionals" at FFW&CC. Despite being showed that the Commission acted beyond their powers, that the rule wouldn't help the manatee, that the rule came directly from the lawsuit settlement, that people would be hurt, and that manatees don't frequent the proposed zones, the judge ruled against us.
The people lost.
What would our Founding Fathers think about the judge's findings? Would they be troubled that such restrictive rules were handed down by unelected bureaucrats and approved by an unconcerned commission? Would they find fault with the way citizens' lives are regulated based on opinion and conjecture rather than solid understanding? Would they have a problem with having to pay taxes to support this abuse?
The Declaration of Independence lists wrongs committed by the King of England against the colonies. Some of the findings are strikingly familiar to the Petitioners. Among those: "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance" and "In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury." The solution in 1776 was to "throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." What will we do!?
Have a nice day,
MD
05-06-2002, 11:21 AM
#20
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Steve1....my info is correct...do your own search...Why do I need credibility...?...You are a typical poster on this subject...you don't know chit about the issue and you come on here and take a shot at me without telling me what damaged my credibility.......Please tell me what you think...oh I already know..."They are not indigous to Florida , PERIOD"...(DEAD WRONG)...And that we should bring in a "natural enemies" to eat them...
Steve1 listen up ...The people on the board that disscuss the issue on manatees are all in favor of saving the animal...Your insults , missinformation , and cracks about eating them don't belong...go back to your jenny jones show where you belong...
Steve1 listen up ...The people on the board that disscuss the issue on manatees are all in favor of saving the animal...Your insults , missinformation , and cracks about eating them don't belong...go back to your jenny jones show where you belong...
