Raylar- Nothing but problems
08-05-2010, 09:18 AM
#51
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Ray,
Sorry to hear about your medical issues.
I did my best to keep my post from becoming mean spirited. I tried to keep it to the facts, and believe I did. In hidsite I could have picked a different title for the post. Maybe "Raylar- My Experience." or something along those lines. As far as the content, I stuck to the facts and did my best to leave emotions out of it.
There are a few things you are a little off on in your post. Nobody ever thought my second motor lost a piston or rod. I did call you to see if you had any ideas and you were very helpful in putting them on the right track. The boat shop was not going to tear into the motor and were very upfront about that to you and me. They did say they would take the motor out if I wanted, but that's it. They also thought it was a top end problem and the motor might not have to come out, so I would need to find someone elso to work on it.
No one from Raylar ever told me they were sending used parts to get my boat going for the 4th of July weekend. I didn't find this out until my mechanic opened the box. He was fine with the used gasket, but the push rod was the wrong one and the bearing in the rocker was "rough" You talked to my mechanic at this point and said you would send a new one right out. One week later I had to call you and see where the new one was, so maybe at this point you drove to the supplier and overnighted the new one.
I haven't talked to you since, so I don't know who told you the boat was operating perfectly?
Here is every weekend I used the boat with the Raylar Motors.
1. First weekend. Had borrowed ECM and break in period but no problems.
2. Second weekend. Blew up motor.
3. New motor first weekend. Took it easy to break in but no problems.
4. Seperate weeknight to test fuel pressure in new motor and take up to speed to make sure no problems. No issues in 30 minutes of boating.
5. 1st weekend this year rocker nut comes loose but we don't know that is problem yet.
6. 2nd weekend have same problem but figure it out after this.
That is it. There was no other boating in my boat and this covers a full year.
On the warranty issue I didn't just send you a bill. I called you a couple of times, emailed you, then faxed you the bill. You can also see the bill is made out to me not you. It is for $544 plus tax for a total of 582.08. I don't want anything from you, so why don't you take whatever you think you should owe and donate it to you favorite charity. It was never about the money it was about the lack of response which I can understand if you were having problems.
My whole purpose in making these posts is to try and educate anyone making a decision on modifying their boat. I will say that if they are going with a raylar kit that Ray is going to be there to answer any question you have and help the whole way. The kit is going to add the power he says, look great, and sound awesome. Here is where we split opinions.
You say the motor will last as long or longer with your kit on it, I disagree. I think anyone doing the kit on their motor deserves to know that there is a possibility that when you add that much power and crank up the RPM's any flaw in your motor (pistons) may be exposed. If such a flaw is exposed there is no warranty. I believe that if I had not done the first kit my motor would have made it much longer, and I would not have lost so much boating time. From all of the posts I've received about don't mess with the 496 I think there are quite a few that agree.
Sorry to hear about your medical issues.
I did my best to keep my post from becoming mean spirited. I tried to keep it to the facts, and believe I did. In hidsite I could have picked a different title for the post. Maybe "Raylar- My Experience." or something along those lines. As far as the content, I stuck to the facts and did my best to leave emotions out of it.
There are a few things you are a little off on in your post. Nobody ever thought my second motor lost a piston or rod. I did call you to see if you had any ideas and you were very helpful in putting them on the right track. The boat shop was not going to tear into the motor and were very upfront about that to you and me. They did say they would take the motor out if I wanted, but that's it. They also thought it was a top end problem and the motor might not have to come out, so I would need to find someone elso to work on it.
No one from Raylar ever told me they were sending used parts to get my boat going for the 4th of July weekend. I didn't find this out until my mechanic opened the box. He was fine with the used gasket, but the push rod was the wrong one and the bearing in the rocker was "rough" You talked to my mechanic at this point and said you would send a new one right out. One week later I had to call you and see where the new one was, so maybe at this point you drove to the supplier and overnighted the new one.
I haven't talked to you since, so I don't know who told you the boat was operating perfectly?
Here is every weekend I used the boat with the Raylar Motors.
1. First weekend. Had borrowed ECM and break in period but no problems.
2. Second weekend. Blew up motor.
3. New motor first weekend. Took it easy to break in but no problems.
4. Seperate weeknight to test fuel pressure in new motor and take up to speed to make sure no problems. No issues in 30 minutes of boating.
5. 1st weekend this year rocker nut comes loose but we don't know that is problem yet.
6. 2nd weekend have same problem but figure it out after this.
That is it. There was no other boating in my boat and this covers a full year.
On the warranty issue I didn't just send you a bill. I called you a couple of times, emailed you, then faxed you the bill. You can also see the bill is made out to me not you. It is for $544 plus tax for a total of 582.08. I don't want anything from you, so why don't you take whatever you think you should owe and donate it to you favorite charity. It was never about the money it was about the lack of response which I can understand if you were having problems.
My whole purpose in making these posts is to try and educate anyone making a decision on modifying their boat. I will say that if they are going with a raylar kit that Ray is going to be there to answer any question you have and help the whole way. The kit is going to add the power he says, look great, and sound awesome. Here is where we split opinions.
You say the motor will last as long or longer with your kit on it, I disagree. I think anyone doing the kit on their motor deserves to know that there is a possibility that when you add that much power and crank up the RPM's any flaw in your motor (pistons) may be exposed. If such a flaw is exposed there is no warranty. I believe that if I had not done the first kit my motor would have made it much longer, and I would not have lost so much boating time. From all of the posts I've received about don't mess with the 496 I think there are quite a few that agree.
08-05-2010, 09:37 AM
#52
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"I was running full out for about 30 seconds when the motor nuked. It was the first time that the motor had ever been above 5000 RPM's and I was at @ 5300 when it let go." - hawks407
Ray, to say the increased RPM (and HP) of the 103 kit cannot be linked to the piston failure is a bit of a stretch. It may or may not have played a factor in the engine's demise. It is a bit of a coincidence the motor runs trouble free for 110 hours and the first time it is taken beyond its intended operating RPM range it breaks a piston. It is common knowledge that turning too many RPM with a cast or hypereutic piston can cause them to break. Do you have pics of the broken piston? Did it pull the wrist pin out of the piston? Did the piston show signs of detonation?
Ray, to say the increased RPM (and HP) of the 103 kit cannot be linked to the piston failure is a bit of a stretch. It may or may not have played a factor in the engine's demise. It is a bit of a coincidence the motor runs trouble free for 110 hours and the first time it is taken beyond its intended operating RPM range it breaks a piston. It is common knowledge that turning too many RPM with a cast or hypereutic piston can cause them to break. Do you have pics of the broken piston? Did it pull the wrist pin out of the piston? Did the piston show signs of detonation?
Last edited by Knot 4 Me; 08-05-2010 at 10:00 AM.
08-05-2010, 02:34 PM
#53
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That sucks that you have had problems but I see this happen all the time to people. Someone who might not have a very good understanding of the risks of modding engines has something go wrong and the shops always don't help since they might not always fully explain the risks of what they are doing to there motors.
I hope everyone ends up happy with this deal in the end since it is never good to leave a customer with a bad task in his mouth but it is also just as bad to unjustly hurt the reputation of a persons company.
I hope everyone ends up happy with this deal in the end since it is never good to leave a customer with a bad task in his mouth but it is also just as bad to unjustly hurt the reputation of a persons company.
08-05-2010, 03:06 PM
#54
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Face it, is performance boating. things go wrong, things break. Doesn't matter if its mercury or bubba's back yard boat motors, chit happens. When your sitting on the dock because chit happens, the chit really stinks.
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
08-05-2010, 04:31 PM
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Face it, is performance boating. things go wrong, things break. Doesn't matter if its mercury or bubba's back yard boat motors, chit happens. When your sitting on the dock because chit happens, the chit really stinks.
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
And yes, it would have been worse with Merc. Ask how many guys suffered water intrusion do the the "stock" headers on the 525 he was considering. Then ask how many guys got any help at ALL from Merc.
08-05-2010, 08:51 PM
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If they can't gete rich on every single part they won't mess...
I ran cast in an old engine making 525 and beat the absolute, living, dog snot out of it.
Looking back, I acted a fool but learned how to drive pretty decent....
08-05-2010, 09:13 PM
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I for one have never heard of stock 496 engines losing pistons. Raylar claims this just happens and in no way adding the BCK-103 kit which increases the HP and top rpm could have caused the catastrophic failure to Brad’s engine. Besides just common sense, this just does not add up even using the numbers provided by Raylar. 50-100 failures on the 40,000 stock engines is .12-.25%. But 3-4 stock piston failures on the 700 Raylar modified engines is .43-.57%.
1. By and large, the majority of boat owners never get on this site and post issues or complaints. All of us on here are a minority in the sport. I realize how many members there are but I don't think most on this forum realize how many owners do NOT partake. It's pretty easy to loose sight of this or never give it a thought. That alone will heavily skew the numbers.
2. If you spend time around some shops (most have no time or interest), it may surprise you at what you would see. No offense but there is no way it could "add up" to you if you don't spend a lot of time around it looking, poking and being nosey.
3. You may be shocked at a lot of the dense, inexperienced mechanics out there. First thing a guy does after he buys a kit is try to find someone who will install it at a "perceived" discount. Or he hunts down a shop that says "yeah, we'll have it going by the long weekend for you". The scenarios are literally endless. If you have a nice boat, nice stuff to install but have an "average" guy, you're in trouble.
I was at a local Mercury Dealer here in SD the other day grabbing some parts. Lots of nice, low hour stuff torn to chit.
Some within the warranty barely. Lots just outside the warranty. It happens.
08-05-2010, 09:22 PM
#59
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Face it, is performance boating. things go wrong, things break. Doesn't matter if its mercury or bubba's back yard boat motors, chit happens. When your sitting on the dock because chit happens, the chit really stinks.
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
Modfying anything can breed headaches, modifying a motor with baseline piston issues just exacerbates things while at the same time I am willing to bet Ray took much better careof you than merc would have.
The only way to never have problems is to buy a 30' new wave crusher hull, and put box stock 350's in it hooked to 6's and adjust the trottle so it only opens half way, even that is not garaunteed and its not much fun either
