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Unbiased opinions needed on engine build..

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Old 09-21-2010, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HaxbySpeed View Post
Luckily it's only run for 10 or 15 minutes so far, otherwise it would have burnt down for sure. I think it will be good for the customer and the builder to hear the exact things I have been saying coming from other people. I won't discuss the money or name the builder because that's between them. It was supposed to be 650 to 700hp.. With 30lb injectors and a stock MPI intake..
Wow! And I still worry about a stock GM steel bottem end on mine! It is balanced with better froged pistons though!
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:50 PM
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WAT IS A FROGED PISTON ? ONE THAT TURNS GREEN AFTER MELTING
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:02 PM
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I had a boat come to my shop that needed EFI tuning.. Another shop built the engine and has been struggling with it for almost a year. At first glance I became nervous when I saw the oil lines to the cooler were on regular brass hose barbs with clamps, not pushlock, and the fuel supply was only 1/4"... Sooo, I dug a little deeper and it got worse and worse. The owner has lost all confidance in the builder and the builder insists all it needs is tuning and I'm trying to rip him off. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board and perhaps some of your input and constructive critisism would be helpful. The builder wants more money for all the time he spent trying to make this thing run..

Here's the build - 454mpi, M1 procharger.
Here's what I found - Eagle cast stroker crank, the smallest Comp cams hydraulic roller marine cam, Non adjustable valve train with .030" washers under the stud bolts, pistons are .016" down the hole with .053" thick 502 head gaskets with a 4.610 bore. Half the valve springs are installed upside down and the heads are 100cc Vortec's with the big point in the middle of the chamber. 30lb injectors.
Oh those heads are awesome, especially when you like pistons with holes in them!! Those are are literally the worst I've ever worked on. They get so hot at that point in the center, its starts to glow, then pre-ignites and motor goes bye bye. I did have some reasonable success with a tremendous amount of porting, laying that over. But its IMO that its best to throw them away and at least get some cheap aluminum heads like edelbrocks, work very well for the app.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:09 PM
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you should put it back together the way you found it, pull the prop off and put dyno on it. have the builder there and owner and fire it up, run it on dyno to max rpm and let it blow. then tell the owner to tell the builder to write him a refund check and have it in certified funds. that motor is wrong anyway you look at. make the builder eat his own problem.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:32 PM
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you should put it back together the way you found it, pull the prop off and put dyno on it. have the builder there and owner and fire it up, run it on dyno to max rpm and let it blow. then tell the owner to tell the builder to write him a refund check and have it in certified funds. that motor is wrong anyway you look at. make the builder eat his own problem.
That is the best suggestion I have heard so far.
Although we all know the fuel lines are rediculously to small, I think it will flow enough to supply the 30 lb injectors

Personally, if that came in my shop, the only way I would touch it is to tear it down and start over. You KNOW there is other problems with the build. What you mentioned is only what you can see. What about the bearing clearance, ring gaps, piston clearance, machine work, etc. etc. etc.
Even if you do all you can to fix the problems that you see, the chances that something else will go wrong and it will break are pretty good. Then, it all falls on you. No matter what you tell the customer, he is going to be looking at you when it breaks. The only sure fire way is to tear it down and start over. Even if you tell the customer...."look, I fixed the oil lines, rocker arms, tuned it, etc and now it runs fine. Here is the bill for a several grand. I didn't touch the bottom end so I'm not sure about it" All he hears is it's fixed. He didn't hear anything about the bottom end. So now, when it breaks, it's all your fault. You'll have to eat it. If you don't, then he will get on here and every other website and trash you. The couple dollars you will make from it are not worth it. Trust me.

I have been in your situation and telling you this from experience. I learned my lesson. If I am not comfortable with all of it and the customer won't let me go through it all, then I won't do any of it. You will come out ahead in the long run. Give me a shout if I can help out. Good luck.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:33 PM
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Whoa..you said you wanted an unbiased opinon?

Dude..this is OSO.

BTW I 'd go with what Eddie said.

Last edited by omerta one; 09-21-2010 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:22 AM
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I have a better suggestion, bring the customer to lunch ot take him for coffee. sit down be his friend and explain to him, this all ****ed up. explain detail that you want no part of this builders headache. explain to him that you will not waste any of his money trying to bandage this mess to have him come back even more disgusted and spending more money. it needs to be torn down to nothing, replace crank, with new rods and pins and pistons. with block totalty re machined. square deck,line hone,bone and hone. all new cam bearings. quality bottom parts and fastners and such. assembled by one person from start to finish. heads done correctly with all right hardware. correctly. it just needs to be re done the correct way. then tell the owner to sue the last builder.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:45 AM
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Thanks everyone. This thread was more for the builder then the customer. When it first came in I told him the same things everyone else here has said. They asked me just to get it running, and I told them to take it away. I'm not interested in having my name attached to this disastor. The best thing to do would be to put it back together stock NA, sell it off and start with a 502. The problem is the owner has spent enough money now to build two engines and missed the entire season. He seems to be a really nice guy who has been completely screwed over and I want to help him out. As an added bonus they also covered his boat and interior in grease, chipped the gel, and tore a seat..
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:51 AM
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That entire engine is total clusterfock. 650-700hp? What a joke

I would not even attempt to fix it or tune it. You could get caught up in the mess and end up being the fall guy.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:57 AM
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i agree...
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