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Eat your hearts out turbo's!

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Old 09-25-2010, 03:56 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by rlj676 View Post
Well, I work at GM, have worked at Ford (so know people at both) and have friends in our R&D labs running dyno's all day every day, so I'm pretty sure I'm informed here. For mainstream applications, who is using a SC? Like I said, there are some high performance SC applications (which is where you come in right?), but for fuel consumption reasons turbos are where the development is for the biggest volume of the sales. So, I'm pointing out that turbos are far from being walked away from. You mention Ford, you have heard of ecoboost which they are planning to put in every vehicle right? This is what I mean. I'm all for hearing new supercharged programs Ford (or anyone) is coming out with? If they are, it's high performance, not a volume seller.

Anyone that has driven a modern turbo car (2.0 LNF Cobalt SS or Regal, BMW 335, Ecoboost Ford's) can promise you that lag is not only not noticeable, it is non-existent. I totally agree though it takes very complex electronics and tech (direct injection like I mentioned). This is why it isn't the short term performance boat solution, but the long term one. We as an industry can not invest what auto OEM's can to get the tech and make it affordable. Hence Merc Racing's obscene pricing.
I can't post the programs, we sign ND agreements but many packages, such as the Ecoboost are facing problems and there are identical motors running PD SC's in testing right now. As the program directions are changing for 2016 zero emission standards which have been unachievable by OEM's and turbo applications to date. Turbo's have grown in popularity and will continue for the next few years, but the OE's are looking at the future and already testing both scenario's, and believe me, twin-screw's with variable pressure ratio's are in the future along with far more advanced clutch systems then used on the Mercedes applications.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:17 PM
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Jon thnx for sharing and Dr Bobs cougar is a Badd MoFo
Hey how you been? Need to catch up one of these days :-)

In regards to Dr. Bobs boat currently over propped so there should be more speed once dialed in. :-)


Jon
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:35 PM
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That is a really cool video... but that doesnt look like it is set up for a boat as it is running there. The header is glowing... which means non water jacketed exhaust (a must for marine use), and the motor doesn't look to have all accessories installed (raw water pump, power steering pump, alternator, dry sump pump etc.)

Dustin's 4.0 quad rotor motor is producing over 1850 hp while running all of the accesories mentioned above, through water jacketed exhaust.

I would like to see a marine performance turbo motor producing more than 1850 hp... while running all accessories for a boat... in marine configuration... please

Thanks,

Chris

P.S. If you guys can not come up with a marine performance turbo motor producing more than 1850 hp...while running all accessories for a boat...in marine configuration....then Dustin's title for this thread is pretty darn legitimate.

Last edited by CB-BLR; 09-26-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:59 PM
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I wasn't going to comment on this thread, because the choice of supercharger argument has been done many times on OSO. But I would like to say that the rumors of my disappearance are greatly exaggerated!

Since I'm here, I have to say that the problem is not which supercharger to use to make 1800 HP. The problem is how to keep the engine together at 1500 HP. I was told this years ago by a respected engine builder, but I didn't appreciate the fact until we spent a lot more time and money on the twin blower system. Then the light bulb went on. You just can't keep pushing more and more HP out of the same eight holes. Eventually you run into four major obstacles:

too much valve lift
too much piston speed
too much boost pressure, heat, drive loss etc.
too much cylinder pressure

As a result of this "revelation", we started working on our own engine program. This, of course, turned out to be a huge job and that's why you haven't heard from us for a while.

And although I don't post much anymore, I do enjoy poking my head up once in a whle to see what's happening on OSO.

Thanks,

Tom
Turbos like mild cams, Theres no need to rev the engine with huge torque on tap just gear for it.

Low boost is possible with a good flowing head as boost is simple a measure of restricion and nothing else. CFM through the air pump (engine) is the most important number.
Heat and cylinder pressure are the two main obsticles imo and thats where a proper TUNE comes into play. I mean lets face it whenever you pull more out of an engine your going to test its limits but a good fat tune can go a long way towards longevity.

Just my .02$
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:08 PM
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Is that why people are taking PSI's off and replacing them with turbos.. Try making that statement to Brad Personett. Even the one on in my Avatar is being removed as we speak and getting turbos ready for the Supernationals in Vegas..
Yeah baby Going turbo will be the best move youve made!

once you go to turbos its very hard to go back. Unless the class rules even out the feild or something like that. Look at how many classes turbos have been banned from in the past.

They just make stupid power.

Guys like Jason Betwarda were running in the 7's back in the early 90's on turbos. (AKA RACIN JASON)

I have nothing against blowers or S/C 's or anything like that I just really like turbos and thier potential.

If I Had an I/O boat not a 300X boat Id have turbos on it for sure.

I like my boats to be STOCK though and un messed with so I went OB's
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:00 AM
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Here are a few videos of Check300's setup. Top speed to date is 114 mph @ 6400. Check out the boost gauge (just below and to the right of the speedo) when getting on plain...THERE IS NO LAG. Over 1200 lb-lb @ 2500 if needed. And it idles just fine, 500 in gear 900 out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/raimerm?feature=mhsn

Last edited by raimerm; 09-26-2010 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CB-BLR View Post
That is a really cool video... but that doesnt look like it is set up for a boat as it is running there. The header is glowing... which means non water jacketed exhaust (a must for marine use), and the motor doesn't look to have all accessories installed (raw water pump, power steering pump, alternator, dry sump pump etc.)

Dustin's 4.0 quad rotor motor is producing over 1850 hp while running all of the accesories mentioned above, through water jacketed exhaust.

I would like to see a marine performance turbo motor producing more than 1850 hp... while running all accessories for a boat... in marine configuration... please

Thanks,

Chris

P.S. If you guys can not come up with a marine performance turbo motor producing more than 1850 hp...while running all accessories for a boat...in marine configuration....then Dustin's title for this thread is pretty darn legitimate.
Here you go Chris. Reliable information from named sources in the boating world. Nobody does turbo engines like Ken Duttweiler. Heck, a regular, infamous character of this forum, Sean Stinson, has driven the boat. I and everyone at last year's Shootout was there to witness it. When Dustin's engines get to 2500hp let the rest of us know!

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...u-go-here.html

Big Andy

Last edited by BattleCry; 09-26-2010 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:11 AM
  #198
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Here you go Chris. Reliable information from named sources in the boating world. Nobody does turbo engines like Ken Duttweiler. Heck, a regular, infamous character of this forum, Sean Stinson, has driven the boat. I and everyone at last year's Shootout was there to witness it. When Dustin's engines get to 2500hp let the rest of us know!

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...u-go-here.html

Big Andy
Big Andy,

Now that is awsome looking!

Having said that...is that boat just slow...or did they have other problems...or are the motors not really making 2500-3000 horsepower each... when fully rigged to run in the boat?

Because Nauti Marine (using supercharged motors with less horsepower) was undoubtedly the fastest and quickest boat there.

Don't get me wrong...I am a huge turbo charger fan! ... I am just not seeing a lot of turbo boats... with all these claims of huge horsepower... spanking everyone.

Chris
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:40 AM
  #199
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Dustin,
What will i need to have the motors put on the dyno and the ecu's remapped? or will we just be able to replace the 3.3's and go?
Can't wait to see these things!!
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:22 AM
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I can't post the programs, we sign ND agreements but many packages, such as the Ecoboost are facing problems and there are identical motors running PD SC's in testing right now. As the program directions are changing for 2016 zero emission standards which have been unachievable by OEM's and turbo applications to date. Turbo's have grown in popularity and will continue for the next few years, but the OE's are looking at the future and already testing both scenario's, and believe me, twin-screw's with variable pressure ratio's are in the future along with far more advanced clutch systems then used on the Mercedes applications.
OK, that makes sense. For far out programs everything is on the table, but I'd say nothing is quite a production program yet which is what I was talking? With clutched systems to operate like a turbo and save fuel when boost isn't necessary the traditional fuel consumption of of superchargers would be greatly improved, best of both worlds I imagine.

I know ecoboost is a very costly program as you mentioned, and one that is tough to make a business case for in actual gas savings vs additional up front costs, but the gov't has basically forced it w/ emissions and CAFE, and only getting worse in the future as you know.

I look forward to seeing the advancements in roots style blowers, turbos, and even crazier stuff like HCCI (homogeneous charge compression ignition) which a lot of people are huge on. I like all of this more than hybrids!
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