Coast Guard Vessel Documentation Number
 

I think the number has to be "permanently” affixed to the vessel in the engine area. How did some of you do this? I still have to do this, and was wondering what others have done to meet this requirement.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Yep, me too. I thought about possibly etching into the transom bulkhead. Problem is they have to be 3 or 4 inches high...

Rick

I bought some stencils from an office supply store and spray painted the numbers on. I've seen others done this way, and they passed a CG inspection in Miami last year. I may still have the stencils if you need them...

Apply vinyl and clearcoat over them

Phantom,
Here it is verbatum 46CFR67.121/Official number marking requirement."The official number of the vessel, preceded by the abbreviation ``NO.'' must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals not less than three inches in height on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed to the vessel so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious. If the official number is on a separate plate,the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area." It does not have to be in the engine space. For recreational boats I like CIG1's idea the best. The clean way would be to etch or router the number in a stringer and then re-seal it with resin, painting alone doesn't meet the requirement nor does screwing or glueing the placard, however most don't get too excited about it on a recreational boat. Try to find a place where the number can be viewed without entering the compartment or pulling up cockpit carpets, etc. - this will make the boarding go that much smother. Also, if your state requires that the boat be registered as well, the state numbers shall be removed from display on the vessel. I hope I didn't make it more confusing.
Brad

Good question, the boat I am buying will be documented and I don't want to do anything that would be ugly when you open the hatch. Does anybody have any photo's of how they have applied the numbers/letters?

I was told by Dick Simon Marine that the boat will be exempt from state sales tax if it is documented. Is this true?

Nort I just use vinyle block letters and have been inspected by MO water patrol US Coast Guard and broward county sherriff and none of them have said anything mine is my my knees at my drivers helm.

BTW did you get the photo's

Also.........delivery of the vessel has to be out of state, and kept out of the state for 91 days.

Cool... I had to sign the 90 day paper on the current boat for the out of state delivery, but it was not documented so I payed AZ sales tax. No tax sounds good to me. See you at Havasu.:cool:

its true you dont have to pay sales tax but they still make you pay a "registration fee".

i thinks its around $750.00 for missouri.

I was recently looking into this, and it is a little more complicated than that to keep everything legal. You need to show intent to use and store the boat out of state and you also need to take transfer of title and have the first use of the boat out of state.

Down the road, if you "change your mind" about keeping the boat out of state and decide to bring the boat to CA, you can apply for a sales tax exemption if you can prove your intent to use and store the boat out of state. This is done by using and storing the boat out of state for more than half of the first 180 days after delivery.

If you take delivery in Az you may need to pay Az sales tax, but I'm not sure about that..

We have a house in Havasu, so I will use that address for the delivery. I was told that a state has no claim as far as tax is concerned because when you document the vessel it technically becomes part of the Unites States Fleet. I hope this is right.:confused:

In Maryland you pay sales tax either way. You also have to pay a fee to run you documented vessel on the bay. Pretty much equal to normal registration. The numbers on the boat I bought were on the base of the bench seat in vinyl. They are gone as is the documentation. I turned it in. Did not need a secured ships mortgage due to good credit and saw no reason to encumber future buyers of this boat with all that. And there is a lot to documenting a boat properly if you do it yourself. I learned how to do it myself then chose not to.
Did you know the original purpose of this documentation process was to provider tax relief to those who would allow their boat to be taken for milatary purposes during times of war (WWII)? Now a days there is no tax relief and the goverment has every right to remove your boat from your front yard if they deem necessary. Not that they couldn't anyway but ****.... I not gonna give them that right with no tax relief. If you don't need the documentation for a ships morgage then it is not wise to have one, in my .02.

Did I sound opinionated on this?.............


BT :cool:

Who has the right answer? I have been told no sales tax, and now it sounds like maybe it won't be exempt. I have a place that will do it for $450.

Nort , I think I am in the same situation as you, I live in California, but it will be documented with a home port of Lake Havasu, AZ. Did you have to pay sales tax?

it does become part of the united states AND they can come get it if they want in times of war.

hmmmm , a cat with twin 50 calibers mounted on it would look pretty cool!!!!!!

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm


heres the coast guard link that should answer all your questions.

in my opinion the is only one reason wether to document your boat or not.

MONEY!!

it was alot cheaper for me to document my boat then pay the sales tax.

in missouri the tax on a $50,000.00 boat comes to around $3750.00.

all you have to do is fill out a few forms , buy some vinyl lettering , and your done.

Yep, loto is right.. that is where I learned. But make sure you add in your states DNR (or whatever). They are the ones wanting the cash in MD, not the USCG. Grab your ankles and bark like a dog.... they get you either way!!!

BT :cool:

This is fun stuff, isn't it?? Nort answered a lot of questions for me when I was looking into this. The understanding that I have is that having your boat documented does not give you a sales tax exemption. However, if you have not paid sales tax, it is easier to have the boat documented instead of having it registered because a state will typically want to see proof that sales tax was paid in order to register the boat. When you have the boat documented I don't think that you need to show any payment of state sales tax.

Also, I'm not an expert but I would double check about Az sales tax. Have you considered an offshore delivery??

you can contact this lady and she will make you one out of wood for 35.00, helga botkin 513 542 4349, document it in kentucky or delaware

Phantom when we did my fathers blow boat we just made a plaque and bolted it in there. That was an acceptable way to do it.

Jon

ROFLMAO :D:D:D

Went through this
 

I live in Phoenix, AZ. I purchased my boat in Fort Meyers, FL. The dealer there did not charge me sales tax as I went to Florida to pick up the boat. When I got back to Arizona I had the boat documented and paid no sales tax.

This is how it works in AZ. All boats (motorized) in AZ need to be registered at the Game and Fish Department. They will want to see a bill of sale showing that tax is collected. After paying the fees a certificate of number (registration) is issued for your boat and you put on the appropriate numbers. If the bill of sale doesn't show any sales tax collected, the Game and Fish Department will not issue a certificate of number. They make you go to the AZ Dept of Revenue and pay the tax due.

How then do you not pay tax on a documented boat? In Arizona, the state won't allow dual registration. If the boat is documented, the Game and Fish Dept. won't allow you to register it. If you can't register it, no one knows if you paid sales tax or not. Easy. :D

Lake Racer, its exactly the same in VA which is why I decided to go with documentation. Otherwise, I would have needed to register with the Dept of Game and Inland Fisheries and pay $2000 sales tax. Documentation cost me $133 with the CG and $175 for some nice vinyl lettering on the stern.

I am told by a few folks here that they also avoid property tax by being documented. (The city gets their list from Game and Inland Fisheries - not so sure if they get one from the CG) We shall see.

Macklin

I was reading that some states still require you to register the boat even though it's been documented.
Greedy bastards.

Article in PassageMaker Magazine talked about taking delivery of the vessle "off-shore" or outside U.S. waters. Then keeping it in Mexico (Ensenada) for 91 days. After then you can return it to the U.S and not pay sales tax and apply for Calif. tax exemption.

I put vinyl numbers on one side of my engine compartment and coated over with resin. Only bad thing is that the resin turns kind of yellow.

Macklin, if they catch you they will tax you. I wasn't paying any taxes, and then built a garage out back where I keep my boat. I think the building inspectors turned me in, so now I have to pay (boat is documented). And there is no "car tax" relief..:mad: :mad:

I just went throught this with my boat...and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do(pay that sales tax)...

The boat needed to be documented because there is a ship's mortgage on it, but the kicker is that in New York state, the boat also requires a title to prove ownership. Well, the only way to get a title is to pay the sales tax.

It unclear to me at the time whether I needed to register the boat also, but I figured I would do it anyway and put those ugly numbers up on the bow along with the ugly sticker the state gives you. I later found out it is necessary to register the boat with the state and the numbers are not required, but I figured I would avoid the hassle of being stopped by our local Bay Constables for something stupid...

just my experience so far...

Arizona
 

is also a non-title state. No one knows the boat exists.

Hey Cig, I hear ya on that one. But, I am told that the city dispatches inspectors to the boatels to look for unregistered boats. So I am not holding out much hope. Although, one of the people I talked to who is documented and has not gotten a property tax bill for years, racks up at the same boatel.

As I said, we shall see. Luckily I missed the tax for this year... .just got the bill for the Baja which I no longer own.

Macklin :D

Well here is my experience with Documentation verse DNR registration in Maryland. In MD when you register with DNR you get both a number that you must display at the bow like normal and a 2 year registration use sticker about 4"X4" square. When you are documented you do not display the registration numbers, but you must still display the 2-year registration sticker. So here is how it works; the DNR spot checks marinas each year looking for boats that are docked in Maryland or documented with a Maryland Port-of-Call. If the boat does not have a DNR registration use sticker (the 4"X4" one) they will site you on the spot, if you are aboard, or they will get your address from the CG Documentation and send you a citation in the mail. When you go to pay your MD DNR use registration fee to get your 4"X4" sticker they will check to see if you have paid sales tax if not you owe sales tax based on the NADA stated value. :( I know this to be the case because it happened to me, even worse they tried to charge me for interest on the sales tax from the date the boat was first documented.:mad: :mad: I beat it but almost had to pay an additional $5K in interest and penalties. Maryland Boaters Beware!

That's right On the Bay. You pay in MD no matter how you slice it. I figured this was going to hurt my resale value, so I decertified the vessel. Saved the $500 documentation fee... which is a total sham!!! by the way...... and Uncle Sam has no dibs. Plus I have the ugly number on the bow now that prevent me from getting harrassed constantly.

BT :cool:

I think I will be ok according to Lake Racer. I will go the documentation route with my Havasu house as the registered address. Thanks to everyone for all the good advice.:cool:

BT,

Yep, that was my point, just a waste of time & money to get documented in MD plus it would be a lot easier for uncle sam to reach out and touch your boat when it's documented. Not that he could not or would not if you were not documented, but this makes it a lot easier. Hopefully they will have all the documented boats they need befor they get to my non-documented boat. :rolleyes:

The Formula is documented and registered in MD. The DOC was required by the lender (even though I paid it off in just a couple months when the old boat sold). The MD DNR sticker fee for a DOC boat is only $10/year, so is pretty minimal (not even on the map compared to filling the gas tanks). Yes, I did pay MD sales tax. I bought the boat in NY and they required a letter that MD tax was paid to release the NY title.

The DOC numbers are inside the engine compartment on the bulkhead. I used vynal numbers, then covered it with a single layer of 2 oz fiberglass cloth. It's transparent, so works fine and protects the numbers.

-Greg

My boat is documented but was never
registered, the proof of ownership is the
M.S.O. I received when I bought it. No tax
only $135 to a Documentation Service for
help

Then again some lenders force us into documentation:mad: In this case there is no choice but to do both as in your case:confused: Sure seems to be no consistancy from state to state. Guess the lucky ones are the those who can keep from paying the sales tax or personel proerty tax or both.