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Phenomenon Update: Look for Record Attempt in Summer 2011

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Old 12-18-2010, 01:42 AM
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My cunards were cockpit adjustable and work well being that far foreward they have a good mechanical advantage,What I can't figure out is why the fairing in of the tunnel/cockpit was done in that manner, there is a better way of doing that.
Steve 1 Ė Iím pleased youíve joined this discussion. Iíve had the pleasure of reading some of your very well informed posts and would certainly be interested in your take on the cockpit/tunnel fairing. You are of course spot on in that the moment arm of the canard vis-a-vis the Lcg and center of rotation gives it great effectiveness. Sharkey mentioned gyro control. If the incidence of the canard wing is indeed controlled by a gyro and they have not utilized cheap actuators (they need to be powerful and fast acting) then provided Phenomenon is run on smooth water, they wonít need to worry about dynamic stability, the computers will do the work for them. The wind tunnel testing will have provided the optimum angle of attack for the best useful L/D so Iíd design the system to seek this with an operator override. The computer would then instruct the actuators to positively pitch the canard wing to maximum incidence until the incidence approaches the target AOA and then reduce the incidence accordingly -and of course turn negative if the angle of attack becomes too high. To prevent oscillations the control laws need to be well thought out but I suspect a near off the shelf device from the aircraft industry could be adapted without too much grief. Of course bearing in mind the effectiveness of this canard wing Iíd sure want fail safe and redundant systems in terms of actuators, gyro computers and power supplies. If that canard has a failure mode of full pitch up at 200 knots I suspect it would provide a ride that even the young Mr. Fountain might find a tad too adventurousÖ.

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Old 12-18-2010, 02:18 AM
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Steve 1 Ė Iím pleased youíve joined this discussion. Iíve had the pleasure of reading some of your very well informed posts and would certainly be interested in your take on the cockpit/tunnel fairing. You are of course spot on in that the moment arm of the canard vis-a-vis the Lcg and center of rotation gives it great effectiveness. Sharkey mentioned gyro control. If the incidence of the canard wing is indeed controlled by a gyro and they have not utilized cheap actuators (they need to be powerful and fast acting) then provided Phenomenon is run on smooth water, they wonít need to worry about dynamic stability, the computers will do the work for them. The wind tunnel testing will have provided the optimum angle of attack for the best useful L/D so Iíd design the system to seek this with an operator override. The computer would then instruct the actuators to positively pitch the canard wing to maximum incidence until the incidence approaches the target AOA and then reduce the incidence accordingly -and of course turn negative if the angle of attack becomes too high. To prevent oscillations the control laws need to be well thought out but I suspect a near off the shelf device from the aircraft industry could be adapted without too much grief. Of course bearing in mind the effectiveness of this canard wing Iíd sure want fail safe and redundant systems in terms of actuators, gyro computers and power supplies. If that canard has a failure mode of full pitch up at 200 knots I suspect it would provide a ride that even the young Mr. Fountain might find a tad too adventurousÖ.

ND1
I DEFINITELY WOULDNT TRUST A COMPUTER WITH MY ASS! I WOULD WANT FULL CONTROL OF THE CANARD MANUELLY! ONE MISTAKE WITH THAT CANARD AND YOUR DEAD! NOT TO MENTION THERES SOME OTHER CRITICAL DESIGN ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED!
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:35 AM
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Default Kilo Records, Computer Desinged Boats and Failed Attempts.

Couple of points.
#1. As someone already pointed out a "KILO RECORD" is WAY different than what your dash mounted GPS says or your speed at the end of a quarter mile. As to the drag boats, yeah they're running mid 200's but their doing it in the last couple hundred feet and at absolute edge (and over) of control. No way they could approach those speeds through a Kilo course.
Last absolute record attempt (against Warby's) was one of the Arfons and he went with the drag boat theory. Took a current drag (at the time) hull, stretched it 10', screwed on 10X more power and killed himself in his first attempt. Sad to say but few were surprised w/the outcome to the point that I kept hoping to read that he'd changed his mind leading up to it.
#2. Computer designs......., ask Warby what he thought of the last "promoted' attempt and it's design Allowing a computer to design something to do something thats never been done before w/someones life depending on it???? What #'s do you plug in since we have NONE from reality???
#3. On the outright record EVERYONE that's attempted to break Warbys record has died trying! EVERYONE!

IMO, I think the propeller driven record is easily attainable and have several friends that have toyed w/the idea including Warby. (a friend of mine) Consider that the current record is only 30 or so MPH's over a record that stood since 1960! And that boat was wood, designed for oval course racing and powered w/a V-12 aircraft engine! So we've done what
Taking absolutely nothing from the current record holders but look at the advancements in technology and power for a speed improvement of 15% in 50+ yrs ???
From what I've been told I think it's clear that these guys (the Unlimited guys anyhow) understand they're going where no ones been before and the difference between success and failure (death) is paper thin. Also that a hull designed for Unlimited oval course competition ain't the same one to chuck a brick on the gas pedal with.

I have been watching the Offshore crews toy w/the idea of an attempt and clearly they are making the power but I'm not sold on the designs ??? Not convinced they have the stability at that speed w/the cats of today???
Warby is a wealth of knowledge and understands these theories more than almost anyone, clearly has more experience and I'm not sure he's sold. I spent quite a bit of time in and around his current boat just in case the smart ass from California up's his record (his words ). It has angle changes, shapes coming and going that boggle the mind.

Here's a shot of the new boat just before we set his driveway on fire. That's Ken in the middle and I'm on left shorting the starter on the jet.

Last edited by Twin O/B Sonic; 12-18-2010 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:39 PM
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Steve 1 Ė Iím pleased youíve joined this discussion. Iíve had the pleasure of reading some of your very well informed posts and would certainly be interested in your take on the cockpit/tunnel fairing. You are of course spot on in that the moment arm of the canard vis-a-vis the Lcg and center of rotation gives it great effectiveness. Sharkey mentioned gyro control. If the incidence of the canard wing is indeed controlled by a gyro and they have not utilized cheap actuators (they need to be powerful and fast acting) then provided Phenomenon is run on smooth water, they wonít need to worry about dynamic stability, the computers will do the work for them. The wind tunnel testing will have provided the optimum angle of attack for the best useful L/D so Iíd design the system to seek this with an operator override. The computer would then instruct the actuators to positively pitch the canard wing to maximum incidence until the incidence approaches the target AOA and then reduce the incidence accordingly -and of course turn negative if the angle of attack becomes too high. To prevent oscillations the control laws need to be well thought out but I suspect a near off the shelf device from the aircraft industry could be adapted without too much grief. Of course bearing in mind the effectiveness of this canard wing Iíd sure want fail safe and redundant systems in terms of actuators, gyro computers and power supplies. If that canard has a failure mode of full pitch up at 200 knots I suspect it would provide a ride that even the young Mr. Fountain might find a tad too adventurousÖ.

ND1
ND Hi and sorry I did not see this before, on my stuff the canards were cockpit controlled by the drivers right hand ,simple foreword on the stick bow down and there were 6 locked positions in between of varying angles of attack, this until it was tied into the helm, in event of failure in the mechanics it assumed a level position, there was a complete set of aerodynamic controls that went on that boat, but the UIM was giving me a very rough time with just the foreword in fact a Sheik intervened in the war because he wanted to see the boat run.

The cockpit fairing,We all do things in a personal style, mine would be different.

the unlimited guys have for years had automated control on the forward wing, Budweiser years back would test in the parking lot by raising the bow and the wing deployed at a set angle.

like Mr Fountain I chose the same route with allowing the crew control of the trim.
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