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I can remember before and the onset of ethanol production when we had a surplus of corn every year. The diverted acres program came into effect, trying to get farmers to plant less because there was too much supply of corn and soybeans. The commodity prices follow the rising cost of inflation, thus, higher food prices. The ethanol money stays here and doesn't go overseas. Is there something wrong the money staying here in the U.S.? Farmers buy new equipment, trucks, semis, trailers, build buildings, grain storage, and spend their money in their local economy. Would you rather give all your money to an overseas oil company? We could get rid of farm subsidies and get more section 8 housing, more people living off of the government, and more of your hard earn dollars to help some foreign country that couldn't care less about the U.S.
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Battle I think that what some people are saying myself included is that if it was such a good thing it would support itself by now. Sure they needed "startup capitol" but by now they should be able to make it with out subsities if they had such a good thing.
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Audio, I agree. The oil industry is subsidized more than the ethanol industry. It needs to be a level playing field.
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Originally Posted by Payton
(Post 3271999)
Audio, I agree. The oil industry is subsidized more than the ethanol industry. It needs to be a level playing field.
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"Farm subsidies" are people living off the goverment.
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Originally Posted by BattleCry
(Post 3271952)
I can remember before and the onset of ethanol production when we had a surplus of corn every year. The diverted acres program came into effect, trying to get farmers to plant less because there was too much supply of corn and soybeans. The commodity prices follow the rising cost of inflation, thus, higher food prices. The ethanol money stays here and doesn't go overseas. Is there something wrong the money staying here in the U.S.? Farmers buy new equipment, trucks, semis, trailers, build buildings, grain storage, and spend their money in their local economy. Would you rather give all your money to an overseas oil company? We could get rid of farm subsidies and get more section 8 housing, more people living off of the government, and more of your hard earn dollars to help some foreign country that couldn't care less about the U.S.
the only thing it does is help to mask our woefully inadeqate refining capability so I guess what your really saying in your sparking patriotism about keeping money here is that I should get raped in terms of lower economy (buy more gallons), repairing my equipment/buying products to fight all the negatives of ethanol, and have my tax money spent on farmer welfare? Most of whom that are big in this game were wealthy to begin with? and if you don't believe that, where do you think the lobbying $ to pull this con over on us came from in the first place? |
its all a crock! its a left tree hugging push to "save the planet". There are too many who think this way and those who push for it are trying to get rich and appeal to the tree hugging left.
btw: when i think of al gore, i think of "global warming" (you know the made up bs to help ruin our boating world) he claimed oceans will rise and flood out coastal areas...why did he buy a home on the californian coast? I heard that on fox news. point being this push is far from over and we are just going to have to live with the unrealistic bs until 2012. |
What is really a crock is that the proposed compromise tax deal with Obama includes an extension of the ethanol subsidies! This is what is sickening with the way the system works, too many "you give me this and I will vote for what you want" deals. What is needed is representatives that vote for what is right, not just for what brings fed money to their districts. They should vote US interests first, district needs second. This isn't easy with our current system, term limits may be the only way to start swaying things in the right direction.
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btw: when i think of al gore, i think of "global warming" (you know the made up bs to help ruin our boating world) he claimed oceans will rise and flood out coastal areas...why did he buy a home on the californian coast? I heard that on fox news. bigblue
:lolhit: :poopoo: :bsflag: |
Originally Posted by Catmando
(Post 3270613)
Naw GLH that's Bu$h.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture.../cornholio.png |
Originally Posted by Ted G
(Post 3270673)
The key here will be what he comes up with that is going to be the next thing to save the world. He is trying to make his fortune on this stuff so if nothing else is working he will be touting the next great "Threat to Mankind and the Earth!!!!!!!" in order to maintain his power and income. Listen not to the Goracle, it deceives.....
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Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 3269689)
In my F150 E10 lowers the mileage by closer to 10%. Luckily I can buy non ethanol at FS, like Knot said. And when I am in Missouri most of the 87 octane is still non ethanol.
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have you looked into E85 and it's performance usage? it is
rapidly becoming the rage in smaller lake/race/perf/ blown applications! it seems to work better than methanol, is cheaper than race fuel-even when you use 50%more, the octane is there, and you don't need an intercooler!!:evilb: I'm no way arguing with you guys when it comes to the govt. issues, and the cost to make it, but have any of you recalibrated , and tried it as a race fuel alternative? it seems that everyone who has ,swears by it!:drink: |
Originally Posted by Griff
(Post 3272525)
Are you sure about that???? Ethanol(E10) is not labeled on the pumps in MO, at least not in St Joe, KC, Sedalia or at LOTO. That is why a few land stations at LOTO actually advertise no ethanol 91 Octane.
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Originally Posted by Mentalpause
(Post 3272832)
Stations I use do list it on each pump. They have their 87 and 93 as non ethanol. 89 is priced the same as 87 and is listed as 10%. There are other stations that have ethanol in their 87 but I try to stay away from them.
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What good does it do now that I took the 2 fiberglass tanks out of the race boat (that never had a gallon of gas in them) and replaced them with smaller ones.
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Originally Posted by Catmando
(Post 3272522)
All he's doing is repeating what 99.99999% of climate scientists are saying, but out in public. He takes the heat and he can damn sure stand up to it. I admire that man.
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Originally Posted by vette131
(Post 3272863)
wrong huge numbers of scientists are calling it a hoax. Al Gore is a typical liberal hypocrite, he owns multiple huge homes & fly's around in his jet & drives suv's. They tell us to cut back to save the planet from a bogus crisis while the live like rock stars.
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Originally Posted by Catmando
(Post 3272881)
Huge numbers, seriously??? Have a link?
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.123 http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_3899807 http://www.moonbattery.com/arch |
Originally Posted by Payton
(Post 3270452)
I think the technology has advanced since your numbers came out. They currently get 2.7 gal of ethanol out of a bushel of corn with new technology to move that to 3 to 1. ( http://biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/20...evenue-upside/ ). Aother thing that a lot of people forget is that the process is realy only using the byproduct of feeding corn to cattle.
After making ethanol with a bushel oc corn, what you have left is 2/3 the weight of that bushel in DDGs, dried distillers grain. That can be feed directly to cattle. I've run e10 in all my vehicles ( by choice) since the early 80s. Except the diesels, they get B20. I do think straight gas should be available where there is a need for it. I am also glad to hear I once again disagree with Al Gore. I would like to say that I belong to the energy specialists mentioned in a new article in the US journal Science. I was always convinced that seaweed can be used for fuel, see my funny meant post earlier, but could not fund my research as perfectly as the Bio Architecture Lab, Berkeley, makes me a bit sad. I found the article mentioned in the newspaper The Province, Kanada and will now try to find links to the content. Also in case (brown seaweed) of this source for fuel the input of energy needed to degrade sugar (alginate) to ethanol is the key to the reliability of the future impact. http://www.ba-lab.com/ http://www.ba-lab.com/pdf/BALScience.pdf http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/...biofuel-algae/ http://www.ba-lab.com/news.php __________________________________________________ _______ Be nice to your scientists and your duckies. You will need them. |
Originally Posted by schnydo
(Post 3270097)
Just Think If He Was Pres We'd Of Starved To Death
NK |
The best use for distilled corn is Woodford Reserve.
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At least some of the early promoters of ethanol learned that ethanol and the associated subsidies were a mistake. Some people never did learn.
Of all the proposals in President Bush’s State of the Union speech, the call for massive increases in subsidized ethanol production stands the best chance of winning Congressional support. With the campaign season getting under way, both parties are eager to boost federal funds to the Farm Belt. But even as the president hit the road Wednesday to highlight his plan at an ethanol plant in Delaware, some were already asking: Where is all the corn needed to make that ethanol going to come from? The Great Corn Rush was already sweeping the Midwest before the White House set its ambitious new targets. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 provided generous subsidies for ethanol production along with increased mandates for its use to replace the fuel additive MTBE, which has been linked to cancer. As a result, ethanol production has surged. Over 100 ethanol refineries nationwide now produce now than 5.4 billion gallons a year. The 2005 bill had set targets of 4 billion gallons for 2006 and 7.5 billion gallons by 2012. With dozens of additional ethanol plants coming on line in the nest few years, those targets now look comfortably attainable. So the Bush administration has decided to more than double down its bet. The new target of 35 billion gallons a year by 2017 represents a five-fold increase in ethanol production. That would displace about 15 percent of U.S. gasoline demand. But is there enough corn out there to meet that goal? Ethanol producers say they’re confident they can meet the new targets. Higher yields from existing corn growers will support as much as 15 billion gallons a year, according to Don Endres, chief excecutive of ethanol producer VeraSun Energy, which is looking to more than double production in the next 15 months. “We think there is also another 20 to 30 million acres that could be put into production that would provide enough corn for another 15 billion gallons, so we think we could get to 30 billion gallons on corn,” he said. But critics of the Bush plan say the numbers just don’t add up. “Producing 35 billion gallons of ethanol a year would require putting an additional 129,000 square miles of farmland — an area the size of Kansas and Iowa — into corn production, which is not very likely,” said Philip E. Clapp, president of the National Environmental Trust. Increased demand for corn from ethanol is already straining supplies and pushing prices higher. Corn futures prices recently topped $4 a bushel, the highest price in a decade, raising production costs for livestock producers. The Department of Agriculture earlier this month forecast that by the time this year’s harvest is ready in August, corn in storage will have dwindled to a three-week supply — the lowest level in a decade. Bush conceded Wednesday that the aggressive targets could put a strain on U.S. corn production. “There is a constraint, and that is the ethanol use today comes from corn, and we've got hog growers and chicken growers that need corn to feed their animals," Bush said at a facility owned by Dupont Co. "Therefore it's going to be kind of a strain at some point and time on the capacity for us to have enough ethanol." But the White House says that the plan to boost ethanol production includes "safety valves" that would let the government ease up on renewable requirements "to protect against unforeseen increases in the prices of alternative fuels or their feedstocks," according to briefing materials. The administration is relying on another “safety value” — a technology to produce ethanol from the cellulose in corn stalks and other plants like switchgrass that can be produced more cheaply than corn. So far, this so-called “cellulosic” process is much more expensive than corn-based ethanol. Major research breakthroughs will be required to make it economically competitive. "There quite a long learning curve in terms of proving the technology and bringing it into production," said Peter Gray, KPMG's head of corporate finance for energy and natural resources. "It’s still quite a long way from being economic." Meanwhile, the surge in corn prices has raised the cost of producing ethanol. Higher prices for the natural gas — needed to generate heat to brew ethanol — has also gone up. That has some producers considering delaying or abandoning plans to build more capacity. "We assume a lower completion rate for planned projects, as high feedstock costs are lowering implied returns which should cause some cancellations and deferments," Credit Suisse said in a recent research report to clients. The report said that as recently as last July, investors could expect a return of as much as 35-40 percent. Since then, those estimated returns have shrunk to about 5 to 13 percent, according to Credit Suisse. "The biggest reason that you are seeing projects being delayed has been the cost of building a plant has gone from $1 to $1.25 a gallon to $2 or $2.25," said Monte Shaw, executive director for Iowa Renewable Fuels Association. "That dramatically changes the risk profile on some of these projects." But the rise in corn prices has a silver lining. Higher market prices means that government price subsidies — used to provide farmers with a guaranteed return — have fallen. On Wednesday, the Congressional Budget Office said American taxpayers will save some $31 billion over the next 10 years, compared to previous estimates, due increased corn demand from ethanol producers. The CBO now estimates that farm subsidies will cost $10 billion this year and the annual cost "will range between $8 billion and $10 billion over the next decade." That compares to $18 billion spent on farm subsidies in 2006. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16792220.../#.Txrr8BzO49A |
No wonder the moonshiners can't find any corn.
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Simple Math !
I'll try and put my thoughts on this subject in a simple to understand and read formula for disaster!
STUPID POLITICIANS+GRAVEYTRAIN AGENCY BEAURACRATS+MISINFORMED ENVIROMENTALISTS+GREEDY SELFINTEREST INDUSTRY BENEFICIARIES = PRODUCT USER & TAXPAYER SCREWOVERS !! Try and remember: If a politicians lips are moving HE'S LYING ! If an agency beauracrat is expondulating - HE'S PROTECTING HIS JOB ! If an enviromentalist is whining - HE IS MISINFORMED ! If industry experts and beneficiaries are promoting- THEY ARE TRYING TO STEAL YOUR MONEY ! When will we ever learn !! Best Regards, Ray @ Raylar |
As long as both sides have their devoted cheerleaders, things will go on the same way.
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Originally Posted by Catmando
(Post 3272522)
All he's doing is repeating what 99.99999% of climate scientists are saying, but out in public. He takes the heat and he can damn sure stand up to it. I admire that man.
If cat admires Al Gore. That tells you all you have to know about cat. |
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