Fiat Fpt Diesel 560 Hp 1000+tq
12-14-2010, 11:36 AM
#91
Banned
Just got off the phone with Banks Diesel. The guy would not give me any information about the twin turbo supercharged marine motor they're working on. 800hp/900tq. I know he knows something but he's not giving out any information. They put two motors in a customs boat I know.
This motor would be a game-changer for diesel power in boats. High hp/light weight you could use two where three were necessary before.
This motor would be a game-changer for diesel power in boats. High hp/light weight you could use two where three were necessary before.
Last edited by Catmando; 12-14-2010 at 01:49 PM.
12-14-2010, 12:12 PM
#92
Registered
First of all I hope Mike will forgive us all for wandering away from the thread title where he was looking for info on FPT. As always happens with these diesel threads different product gets mentioned but the discussion is always interesting and we all learn something from it.
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar with what I am running, it is 50' Nor Tech Vee with trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT, I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long time to come tho, a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar with what I am running, it is 50' Nor Tech Vee with trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT, I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long time to come tho, a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
Could you give some more info about the propellors /pitch and diameter ,and ratio gearbox etc ,,and what engine rpm,s total weight of the boat ?
12-14-2010, 12:25 PM
#93
Registered
Just got off the phone with Banks Diesel. The guy would not give me any information about the twin turbo supercharged marine motor they're working on. 800hp/900tq. I know he knows something but he's not giving out any information. They put two motors in a customs boat I know.
This motor would be a game-changer for diesel power in boats. High hp/light weight you could use two where three were necessary.
This motor would be a game-changer for diesel power in boats. High hp/light weight you could use two where three were necessary.
Why do you always bring them up, seriously are you planning on being a dealer or something when they release them?
I'll tell you my take on this again from a different view point, even if the engines run well and have some degree of longevity (1,000 hrs, which I think will be extremely high for them), if I had Bob or Jeff's money (I'm not counting it just going by the toys they post) and given their taste for quality production boats (not one off customs or modified), their expectations for dependability and let's bring up another point - Jeff trades his boats out often it seems - RESALE!
Why would they or the reputables builders they choose with install Banks engines in their boats?
Either owner knows selling the used diesel boat is a harder sell for so many reasons, you need the right buyer. That buyer will look twice at the engines because they might be taking the boat to a different area to boat - where will they get Banks service & parts? How many hours are the engines really good for, because Bob might have used the boat to go from Maine - Brazil and back twice - LOL!
There is a place for the Banks product and until it is proven the upper eschelon of customers and builders just won't look at it. You see the resistance on this thread not from me alone but others about FPT who is a gobal engine builder with billons of dollars behind them.
Cat, I would like to see someone rise-up and do it but the obstacles to selling into the top builders and having the top customers buy them is too great for Banks to overcome. If Banks was really serious they would build a boat with Bravo type drive or RIK Arneson / Bravo conversion (leave the Bravo element, people feel safe with it) and go race it here in the US with Charlie and whatever organization is putting on races next year in a "P" class and then set a couple records. Without 2-3 years of winning and not everbreaking then you'll get people to try them - you pushing them will not get it done.
12-14-2010, 01:14 PM
#94
www.weismann.net
Gold Member
Thank you kind sir! But that was not my question but thank you again for backing me up!
Years ago, we played with Lenco boxes, they made/make a reduction planetarty in-line gear box. We purchased and had the shafts reversed so we could run overdrive. It worked, not as easy as we wanted but workable for testing, it never made it further as you know we had a financial crisis, a kind of Bernie Maddoff of the day!
We also made our own version of a box with twin counter shaft so we could keep the in & out in-line and that kept engine rotation the same as output rotation.
I say to you Pat, I want to run another diesel boat and here is what I want from you:
What would you do to get me that?
The reason for in-line to me is always the repower market, if I made something I would want to be able to capitalize on it for a broader market then a couple race boats.
Give it some thought, what would you do?
Thanks
Years ago, we played with Lenco boxes, they made/make a reduction planetarty in-line gear box. We purchased and had the shafts reversed so we could run overdrive. It worked, not as easy as we wanted but workable for testing, it never made it further as you know we had a financial crisis, a kind of Bernie Maddoff of the day!
We also made our own version of a box with twin counter shaft so we could keep the in & out in-line and that kept engine rotation the same as output rotation.
I say to you Pat, I want to run another diesel boat and here is what I want from you:
What would you do to get me that?
The reason for in-line to me is always the repower market, if I made something I would want to be able to capitalize on it for a broader market then a couple race boats.
Give it some thought, what would you do?
Thanks
We did that already.....whatever ratio you want. on center etc....
How many do you want do you want it to go to a chev bellhousing?
pat W
12-14-2010, 01:36 PM
#95
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Location: Marco Island, FL; Waterloo, ON, CAN
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I agree Nor Tech did a great job on the rigging. Very neat and accessible. Props I think are Mercury 18 X 33. They are my weak link. I have thrown 3 blades in the 440 hrs. I am looking at bronze props. Does anyone have an opinion if they will fare any better ? I would like to do another long distance run next summer and I just cannot have a prop failure half way there. Might never come home ! LOL Engine rpm are 3,450 max. and weight is approx 20,000 lbs plus fuel. I have no idea on gearbox ratio and try not to get all caught up on some of the highly technical aspects of all of this but admire those that do. I try and leave that to the experts.
Bob
Last edited by Bobthebuilder; 12-14-2010 at 01:43 PM.
12-14-2010, 02:07 PM
#98
Registered
Thread Starter
all this info is great on all the different motor's .
keep it coming .
one of the worry's as said above is part's and service for the fpt if i go out of range of the dealer in south florida . but as time come's closer i will do more research .
yanmar ,cummin's are both good motor's so there not out of the question.
there's a 43 nortech with yanmar's for sale is that one of you guy's ?
ive also thought about buying a good used boat that has the deisal's in it already
thank's
mike
keep it coming .
one of the worry's as said above is part's and service for the fpt if i go out of range of the dealer in south florida . but as time come's closer i will do more research .
yanmar ,cummin's are both good motor's so there not out of the question.
there's a 43 nortech with yanmar's for sale is that one of you guy's ?
ive also thought about buying a good used boat that has the deisal's in it already
thank's
mike
12-14-2010, 02:43 PM
#99
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
blue nor-tech just sold not long ago, took it a little while but it was a twin yanmars (i think) with surface drives...beautiful boat. not sure what cruise and top end speeds it was capable of though...I'm sure someone here know tho
Last edited by LAriverratt; 12-14-2010 at 02:50 PM.
