Like Tree0Likes

Fiat Fpt Diesel 560 Hp 1000+tq

Reply
Old 12-14-2010, 04:08 PM
  #101
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Freehold, NJ
My Boats: 32 SeaCraft
Posts: 1,381
Default

You are too funny - diesel years!

Thank you
HabanaJoe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 04:16 PM
  #102
Rik
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
 
Rik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,740
Default

Joe, your being a bit hard on FPT.. They have dealers on the East and the West coast already and are slowly moving themselves into the middle America.. Regardless of if the guy you need is next door the parts have to be there as well and UPS or FED Ex are what can make that happen.. Of course, not needing those parts in the first place is key.

FPT has priced themselves under the competition and have brought a good product to market so I say give them a chance. A few years ago Yanmar had everyone by the balls and now CMD has changed that in a relative short period of time. FPT can only help the consumer as well.
__________________
Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
Rik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 05:07 PM
  #103
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Freehold, NJ
My Boats: 32 SeaCraft
Posts: 1,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
Joe, your being a bit hard on FPT.. They have dealers on the East and the West coast already and are slowly moving themselves into the middle America.. Regardless of if the guy you need is next door the parts have to be there as well and UPS or FED Ex are what can make that happen.. Of course, not needing those parts in the first place is key.

FPT has priced themselves under the competition and have brought a good product to market so I say give them a chance. A few years ago Yanmar had everyone by the balls and now CMD has changed that in a relative short period of time. FPT can only help the consumer as well.
RIK - in support of FPT, I know they are the old Iveco and if any of you know who Aggreko is they used the Iveco's in the their smaller gensets for many years. As being part of the largest independantly owned Aggreko agent in the US years ago we saw plenty of them. I will say no matter which model they ran very well, lasted a long time and had little problems - a good engine. I know the dealer structure has changed and FPT partnering with Case and that whole group gives them a sh*t load of dealers in North America they will 150% be able to provide a better network for service & parts then years ago.

I like the engines, like the company, like allot about them. If MAN and MTU can break into the US then FPT has the money to do it also.

My fears for people on here both users and buiders is this community is very small and image / performance is everything here. When you look at what Eliminator did with the Cummins powered 43 and as people on here have said the engines were taken out? That to me gives everyone involved a blackeye. I just would not like anyone here to have a bad experience and maybe damage a reputation - let's see them in some cruiser type boats, run a bunch of hours and see what happens first?

This is a Buzzi story that I told on here once before but it still is good and makes a point.

When the Gancia and Ebel were in their prime 1988, 1989 Buzzi if you remember was big on "our Seatek engines race the whole season not like your gasoline engines they need to be rebuilt after every race (old 500cui Class 1 engines)" When I got there and we started using the Seatek and it was recomended that everyother race they come out and be "gone over" my radar went up. "What is gone over?". They may need a need head, fresh rings, etc, etc. - I was very quick to point out the "lasts the whole season" thing and was told that - "the block, crank, rods & psitons are all the same everything else is a maintenace item"

You know my point 560hp small cui and we see Buzzi winning a race, but how many hours are really on them? If driven hard for 100, 200, 400, 800 hours will they last or not? Put them in a SeaRay where they run under heavy load at 90% for 250 hours and let's see.

RIK - for all I know it's been done - but I do not, not like the FPT and I believe if they have success in the truck/industrial markets they want to be here in the US they will have great marine service - if they fail in the industrial markets they will pull out.

Here's the real question, will the FPT truck/industrial meet Tier 4 emissions in the US, if not then sales on engines here will go to nothing very soon. You know that emissions is a big pain here and getting worse and you need the other markets to support a marine market because it is just too small on it's own. MAN came in and kicked butt because they had a product that was higher in HP than an 8-92 and weighted allot less, DDA had no other iron to put against it. Once the 60 series & CAT got going, you saw the MAN loose market share. Then MTU comes in with larger engines, takes over DDA and boom a complete line. Now speculate FPT does a great job here, they only make small engines nothing large and MTU takes them over in the US market and now can compete head to head with CMD and have a more robust line of engines all the way to 2,000 hp and beyond!!!!

One more thing and I love discussing this stuff with you guys by the way - nothing against Arneson as I always endorse them having used them in a few boats. Say FPT should follow in the path of Cummins when the "B" was rolled out. No one, but no one would install the "B" as a new build, it's fake diesel, no liners, etc, etc.

What did Cummins do - the repower market. That is why I ask PatW about the box and keep mentioning the Black drive. The first company to truely be able to replace a mid-horsepower gas engine with a diesel economically when win the war. Being able to keep the existing Black drives or a HP version of the same drive, drop in a diesel will do what Cummins did - create a market for new engines by first building the repower market.

In my opinion that is how you go into this market - make that work, there are probably 25 boat owners on this board alone that if they could get out of gas, put in diesels not rework the entire boat, cruise at or above where they used to cruise, be a few MPH slower and have zero maintance dollars like Bob has would spend that money next week - you then are building consumer confidence with the FPT brand and winning customers without risking public flops like the Eliminator 43 which i think was a sweet baot would have given both nuts for that thing!
HabanaJoe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:12 PM
  #104
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

I spoke to a yanmar dealer in tampa fl , area start's with " m" for got the name but they have ben in the biz, for a long time . i told him i was looking at yanmar power performance boat and asked how many hour's i should get out of the motor's .

this is the best part dont know if it's true or not

10,000 to 15,000 hour's on non performance boat's

and would estimate a good 5,000 hour's on a performance boat and maybe more depending on how it was driven . but he has not had to rebuild any performance boat's yet with yanmar's they just dont put enough hour's on them .

he did say that there are some small thing that have to fixed here and there but nothing to do with the motor block head's ect, mostly accessories on the motor .

that is amazing if true .

anyone know of a deisal performance boat with over 1000 + hour's ? for better insight

i know there's a 40 hustler with the 350 hp yanmar's for sale and it has 1100 hour's and of course since there selling it they say it run's great ."maybe it doe's" " but to slow for me "

mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:22 PM
  #105
Rik
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
 
Rik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,740
Default

Well, like you mentioned, even CMD has had their flops.

The Cummins is pretty much a small hp player in the marine world as MTU and CAT have most of the sales of the big motors. The QSM11 is about the best hi hp motor at 715 hp. Everything else get's far to heavy. MAN has a terrible reputation for some reason (anyone remember the doc that paid to have flyers handed out and a plane fly over the Miami Boat Show pulling a banner for a few years pressuring MAN to take his junk back?.. Worked!) Seatek is.. Well they speak for themselves.

Buzzi is using the FPT's currently. Why? Italian to Italian? They give them to him? ? He has had failures though and while they are kept on the down low, they are still failures. Hopefully they learn from them and move forward.

Like I said before, the CMD QSB5.9 480 is cleaning up the Yanmars as they have more torque, are cleaner and are priced less by several thousand $$$$$$ I'm all for them but we always want more and I welcome FPT to give it a shot also. Change is good.

Tier 4.. Cummins is Tier 4 currently. Yanmar & FPT?

I don't think you'll get a Bravo to live with a Diesel, they don't live the best of life's with gas.
__________________
Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
Rik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:29 PM
  #106
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Freehold, NJ
My Boats: 32 SeaCraft
Posts: 1,381
Default

I got to start getting out to the races or boat shows again, I really have to meet some of you all in person!

ps I remember the MAN episodes, how many of those were in Vikings, Post & Ocean from right here in NJ - I remember there was MAN distributor in South Plainfield and now in Woodbridge MAN has a "corporate" kind of office complex/warehouse there.

Mark my words you and I will work on a project some day together, it would be fun!

How many of the Bravo / Arneson conversion deals have you been part of, how does that work with the transmission is it in the boat or the extension and is it just a straight thru or any gear/chain drops in there?

Last edited by HabanaJoe; 12-14-2010 at 08:33 PM.
HabanaJoe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:35 PM
  #107
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
Well, like you mentioned, even CMD has had their flops.

The Cummins is pretty much a small hp player in the marine world as MTU and CAT have most of the sales of the big motors. The QSM11 is about the best hi hp motor at 715 hp. Everything else get's far to heavy. MAN has a terrible reputation for some reason (anyone remember the doc that paid to have flyers handed out and a plane fly over the Miami Boat Show pulling a banner for a few years pressuring MAN to take his junk back?.. Worked!) Seatek is.. Well they speak for themselves.

Buzzi is using the FPT's currently. Why? Italian to Italian? They give them to him? ? He has had failures though and while they are kept on the down low, they are still failures. Hopefully they learn from them and move forward.

Like I said before, the CMD QSB5.9 480 is cleaning up the Yanmars as they have more torque, are cleaner and are priced less by several thousand $$$$$$ I'm all for them but we always want more and I welcome FPT to give it a shot also. Change is good.

Tier 4.. Cummins is Tier 4 currently. Yanmar & FPT?

I don't think you'll get a Bravo to live with a Diesel, they don't live the best of life's with gas.
surface drive's all the way
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:38 PM
  #108
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

so what's the price for these other 2 motor's ? i know the fpt price and that's an over the phone price .

fpt 560 hp $ 33,150 no gear's

cummins 480 hp $ ? no gear's

yanmar 480 hp $ ? no gear's

thank's
mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:46 PM
  #109
Rik
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
 
Rik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebrls View Post
so what's the price for these other 2 motor's ? i know the fpt price and that's an over the phone price .

fpt 560 hp $ 33,150 no gear's

cummins 480 hp $ ? no gear's

yanmar 480 hp $ ? no gear's

thank's
mike

You will have to play the game to get the prices.. They will price them differently according to what you want with them meaning it might be less expensive to purchase the engine with a gear rather than a gear and engine separately.
__________________
Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
Rik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 08:48 PM
  #110
Rik
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
 
Rik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 2,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabanaJoe View Post

How many of the Bravo / Arneson conversion deals have you been part of, how does that work with the transmission is it in the boat or the extension and is it just a straight thru or any gear/chain drops in there?
All of them.. I'm the one who created it and the transmission in the box to keep the engines in the aft part of the boat. I have a drop in the Arneson. Chain/Gear depending upon rotation. Close coupling have the transmission in the box, drive line applications have it forward.
__________________
Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
Rik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 AM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.