Like Tree0Likes

Fiat Fpt Diesel 560 Hp 1000+tq

Reply
Old 12-11-2010, 10:36 AM
  #21
Registered
Platinum Member
 
Comanche3Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve 1 View Post
Excellent read!
Comanche3Six is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 12:19 PM
  #22
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Arlington Tx
Posts: 9,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassman View Post
Its somewhat of a learning curve on diesel set ups. Gear ratio, tranny and type of higher rev motors all play a crutial part in the dialing in process. I my self had Yanmars like Bob, but would look at Cummins next...but then I will not want an NXT drive... I prefer the Arneson...thats when it comes less attractive price wise when you cannot package the two...Like Habana mentioned, Dealer networking is extremely important. Good Luck. Jeff
Use Weismann's 4 or 6 speed transmissions then all you have to do is play with the props.

http://www.weismann.net/offshore.html
Catmando is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 02:50 PM
  #23
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

it say's it got that OL to 112 mph . that's pretty quick in my book , but they didn't say if they where using multi speed tran's thow .

also 1.5 mpg @ 90 mph but that's with 4 motor's so if you had say 2 motor's and cruised @ 60 mph i wonder how much fuel you will burn ? if you where to take the 1.5mpg and x by 2 for half the motor's that's 3 mpg. and say a slower cruise speed of 60 mph wouldn't be bad fuel burn for the average boater
also in say a 40 to 45 ft boat

mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 03:29 PM
  #24
Registered
 
OL40SVX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bristol, RI
My Boats: Outerlimits
Posts: 7,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebrls View Post
it say's it got that OL to 112 mph . that's pretty quick in my book , but they didn't say if they where using multi speed tran's thow .

also 1.5 mpg @ 90 mph but that's with 4 motor's so if you had say 2 motor's and cruised @ 60 mph i wonder how much fuel you will burn ? if you where to take the 1.5mpg and x by 2 for half the motor's that's 3 mpg. and say a slower cruise speed of 60 mph wouldn't be bad fuel burn for the average boater
also in say a 40 to 45 ft boat

mike
They do not have multi speed tranys in the OL. They run four SCS drop boxes and crash boxes. I think the best we've got out of the boat was 114 on a pass.
OL40SVX is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 04:04 PM
  #25
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Freehold, NJ
My Boats: 32 SeaCraft
Posts: 1,381
Default

Mike,

It has to do with how much Hp it takes to go that speed, the engines burn 212 grams per kW hr. At 60 mph maybe your at 60% power say 275kW?

275 x 212 = 58,300 grams or 2056 oz divide by 16 and that's 128.5 lbs or 18 gals/hr and that making 370Hp ea or a total of 72 gal/hr.

I think my math is a little off, that much power and you would probably be in the 80 mph.

I'm guessing 60 mph like you asked is 200kW so
200 x 212 = 42400g = 1495oz = 93lbs = 13.5 gal or 53 gal/hr total
HabanaJoe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010, 10:06 AM
  #26
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabanaJoe View Post
Mike,

It has to do with how much Hp it takes to go that speed, the engines burn 212 grams per kW hr. At 60 mph maybe your at 60% power say 275kW?

275 x 212 = 58,300 grams or 2056 oz divide by 16 and that's 128.5 lbs or 18 gals/hr and that making 370Hp ea or a total of 72 gal/hr.

I think my math is a little off, that much power and you would probably be in the 80 mph.

I'm guessing 60 mph like you asked is 200kW so
200 x 212 = 42400g = 1495oz = 93lbs = 13.5 gal or 53 gal/hr total

with the new style of fuel injection i think they get better fuel mileage , the 480 cummins list 25 [email protected] 3400 rpms and the fpt list 28 gph @ 3000 rpms .
i think i remember the eliminator 43 twin cummins boat running 70 to 75 mph top speed and that would be 50 gph @ 3400 rpms so to cruise @ 60 mph it should be burning a bit less then that i would think .

thank's
mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010, 11:48 AM
  #27
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Freehold, NJ
My Boats: 32 SeaCraft
Posts: 1,381
Default

Mike I know I didn't answer your question exactly and it had nothing to do with old vs new engines, it was more me putting too many variables into the answer i gave you - I'm sorry I get carried away!

To answer you, I took the fuel consumption right from FTP's site, you said 2 engines but I played it out for the 4 engine boat but for your 2 engine boat it most likely would be somewhere between 27 gal/hr and a max of 36 gal/hr for your 60 mph cruise.

Whay the range - I'm trying to figure how much Hp to go that fast, I know it will take about the full 380hp we used to have to make a SH 40 fully loaded in patrol boat trim, that has to weigh close to your Fountain cruiser? So, at FPT's burn rate of 212 grams of diesel to make 1 kW of power then convert all that back to gal/hr and you're at roughly 18 gallons per hour. Times 2 is 36 gals per hour.

I'm guessing the Fountain might be lighter and probably a better hull you might be down to the lower 200kW per engine to get to 60mph hence the lower 13.5 gal/hr or 27 gal/hr total.

That is where I think you will be a low of 27gal/hr and a high of 36gal/hr.

If you do this I would love to come down and visit with you while you start to sea trial!
HabanaJoe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010, 12:17 PM
  #28
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Jassman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabanaJoe View Post
Jeff, I always admire you and respect you but I have to say you are dead wrong about the diesel learning curves.

Diesels absolutley 150% dominated Class 1 and US Open Class when they came over here for years. The learning curve was 27 years ago and perfected 25 years ago.

People just do not want to look at what history has taught them. Like Sonic said the OL ran 103 mph with 4-560hp and it appears people think that is great!

The Gancia ran 104mph with 4-600hp Seateks in her in 1988 and those are heavy mechanical engines that can not compare to the FPT's the OL has in it.

Add the fact that the OL is light years ahead of the Gancia in terms of hull design and construction - what the OL (I don't mean OL the factory but the boat owners) did in my book almost embrassing. The fact that it broke down and why it broke was a simple error in gear design (not OL, not FPT) - an error that was corrected by PatW, ZF, Buzzi, the Diesel Dancer guys and a couple more over 20 years ago is just a poor understanding of engineering and history - that is my opinion. (I hope they were not Pat's boxes, I never asked you made them?)

Now, those Brits are smart and will get it right and that boat will absolutely be the boat to destroy Buzzi but you can't go ahead in anything until you understand where you have been.

I have what is left of money tied up in different things that not for the downturn in the economy I would be OK today, not great but OK, I could at least put gas in my fishing boat - LOL!

I see things picking up soon (I hope) and when I can, I will build the diesel record boat and would love to have guys like you and Bob the Builder run with me. Why build it, because I'm stupid and I'll pour way to much money in to something again and again to prove a point. I believe in the diesels and I know what to do with them, PatW could hook you up tomorrow with the right boxes, RIK has the drives and if you wanted NXT drives PatW could make you the right boxes.

I may not be up on all the new electronics that diesels run today, I'm a dinosaur but props, gear ratios and drives don't know electronics from old style Cummins PT pumps as Kitami used to say "same-same"


Habana, my point on the learning curve is somewhat like installing Ilmors vs Merc...there is somewhat of a learning curve or resisitance in change to get to the final product. The masses still want gas, and the builders other than a few prefer it that way, even though the costs of said motor/tranny/drive are not any more, actually less in some cases...just the mind set of how much more labor will be due to not doing it enough times...ends up being slightly more. Set up is crutial, gear ratio, multi speed trannies is questioned of possibly being more problomatic vs std setup. I wish more customers would go the diesel route, I still love the idea, just couldnt get a third motor in the 43 to get the speeds I wanted. She went 74mph with the twin 480hp Yanmars and ASD-8's. There is nothing in between hp range power to weight ratio that would work to obtain low to mid 80's..., or I either do what my Hero Bob did, just order a lighter 50. If Yanmar or Cummins would come up with the same hp/tq as FPT did then hey...maybe 80mph+ would be a great set up, and work for poker runs where my sticks wouldnt be to wall...until then, Merc 700's were the snizel in that boat..Have a great holiday. Jeff
Jassman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010, 12:28 PM
  #29
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabanaJoe View Post
Mike I know I didn't answer your question exactly and it had nothing to do with old vs new engines, it was more me putting too many variables into the answer i gave you - I'm sorry I get carried away!

To answer you, I took the fuel consumption right from FTP's site, you said 2 engines but I played it out for the 4 engine boat but for your 2 engine boat it most likely would be somewhere between 27 gal/hr and a max of 36 gal/hr for your 60 mph cruise.

Whay the range - I'm trying to figure how much Hp to go that fast, I know it will take about the full 380hp we used to have to make a SH 40 fully loaded in patrol boat trim, that has to weigh close to your Fountain cruiser? So, at FPT's burn rate of 212 grams of diesel to make 1 kW of power then convert all that back to gal/hr and you're at roughly 18 gallons per hour. Times 2 is 36 gals per hour.

I'm guessing the Fountain might be lighter and probably a better hull you might be down to the lower 200kW per engine to get to 60mph hence the lower 13.5 gal/hr or 27 gal/hr total.

That is where I think you will be a low of 27gal/hr and a high of 36gal/hr.

If you do this I would love to come down and visit with you while you start to sea trial!
i sold the fountain , i cant get it of my avatar .
but i am looking into getting another boat in the near future.
some where between the 40 and 45 ft range 8 to 8.5 beam .
when this does happen you can come down anytime to check out the boat and help dial in if you want . and im sure at that time i will have a lot of question's on gear ratio and other stuff .

thank's
mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010, 12:32 PM
  #30
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west palm beach FL,
My Boats: yamaha sx190,yamaha exciter, yamaha ls2000 w c 255dc , 38sonic,38fountain ec,35outlaw,28pantera,27donzi zx ect
Posts: 3,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jassman View Post
Habana, my point on the learning curve is somewhat like installing Ilmors vs Merc...there is somewhat of a learning curve or resisitance in change to get to the final product. The masses still want gas, and the builders other than a few prefer it that way, even though the costs of said motor/tranny/drive are not any more, actually less in some cases...just the mind set of how much more labor will be due to not doing it enough times...ends up being slightly more. Set up is crutial, gear ratio, multi speed trannies is questioned of possibly being more problomatic vs std setup. I wish more customers would go the diesel route, I still love the idea, just couldnt get a third motor in the 43 to get the speeds I wanted. She went 74mph with the twin 480hp Yanmars and ASD-8's. There is nothing in between hp range power to weight ratio that would work to obtain low to mid 80's..., or I either do what my Hero Bob did, just order a lighter 50. If Yanmar or Cummins would come up with the same hp/tq as FPT did then hey...maybe 80mph+ would be a great set up, and work for poker runs where my sticks wouldnt be to wall...until then, Merc 700's were the snizel in that boat..Have a great holiday. Jeff

if your boat did 74 mph with out a multi tran's im sure if it had one 80 mph would be no problem .
i guess the question is can the multi tran's be as reliable as the deisal's

thank's
mike
mikebrls is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.