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Shogren on Used Boats: "Be prepared for reality."

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Old 03-26-2011, 10:37 AM
  #111
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I cant say a broker lowers the value of the boat, it probably highers the value. I mean most people are going to want what they want want for the boat then the broker is going to add on top of that. Sure there are cases where boats are worth X are sold for X, dealer gets x-y% and owners gets X after the dealer cut. But Most boats ive seen at brokers are usually way over priced, rightfully so they have to make their money. I bought a my boat from a broker, and the boat was not even located at the brokers place. So for 10% broker listed boat on internet and passed emails and phone calls along. I guess if you dont have the time or dont want to mess with it, a broker is a good thing. But IMO im not paying somebody thousands of dollars to take a couple of pics and put it on the internet or even to show my boat a couple of times. I know more about it anyways

I think you are off on this one....I think good brokers for both real estate and boats can be invaluable. MANY times the owner is way off the mark when it comes to valuation of their home/boat whatever. A good broker is selling the boat for you, not just posting a couple pics and taking the commission. They can prevent the buyer/seller from killing each other in the process as well. A good broker won't let you "overprice" whatever you are selling simply because everyone will be disappointed when it doesn't sell or you get an offer that is "way low."

Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.

5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:16 PM
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Well said but I have to say if you are using your HELOC to buy a 300,000 boat, Ummm yeah thats about all im going to say
My thoughts exactly. But just how much growth in building, vacation and second home buying, and expensive boats purchases do you think would have been made last decade without HELOC madness? HATEM (House as ATM). A fraction. Some people thought the industry went wild because of tax cuts. Not really.

Heck I was at the boat show once, and was wondering why it was so easy for me to afford a brand new $150k, or even $200k Formula. After 15 minutes, I figured it was not such a sharp idea

Without the reckless housing industry puff up from '01 onward, the boating industry wouldn't have suffered from this boom bust cycle. So in that regard, the dealers share in the blame along with everyone else. And here we are.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:50 PM
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I think you are off on this one....I think good brokers for both real estate and boats can be invaluable. MANY times the owner is way off the mark when it comes to valuation of their home/boat whatever. A good broker is selling the boat for you, not just posting a couple pics and taking the commission. They can prevent the buyer/seller from killing each other in the process as well. A good broker won't let you "overprice" whatever you are selling simply because everyone will be disappointed when it doesn't sell or you get an offer that is "way low."

Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.

5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.
Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:03 PM
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Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....
I thought I was the only one that caught this....

When selling a boat at this time I would say that accommodating the financing is a huge plus.

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Old 03-26-2011, 01:14 PM
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Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....
Except the 70 year old retiree would have never gotten the boat sold....Broker is one of the largest on the east coast and their exposure got the boat sold. This was not a ebay/craigslist boat or a hang a sign on it in your front yard type deal.

For a 10K boat, you certainly don't need a broker. For the big dollar stuff you probably won't be successful without one (they can get financing/take trades etc).

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Old 03-26-2011, 01:19 PM
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Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....
While in theory true,the advertising cost money and how many potential buyers did the broker have to talk to.When I'm ready I really don't want to deal with all the idiots calling me only to then find out they have no money and a 610 credit score.I good dealer broker can screen those buyers and also help with financing options for purchase.
And if the seller had sold privately for 40k less he would still have the same amount of money.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:23 PM
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Hard to say that NADA should be used for a fire starter when that is what most banks have and still use for reference for their loans.

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Old 03-27-2011, 10:59 PM
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Well after reading this thread, I was scared the death. I placed my boat on craigslist on Thursday and sold it on Saturday. Oh and I sold it for $1k less than I paid for it 3yrs ago. Now granted I busted my balls keeping it spotless and bringing out the best it could look, which I totally believe helped me get sell it so easily.

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Old 03-27-2011, 11:06 PM
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No problem on your position but let me tell you why I don't agree with your position. When most people buy a boat, they do not care who owns it or what price is, they simply want to make an offer for alot less than the asking price no matter what the price is. We get email offers for 50% less than we are asking for boats that are already below low wholesale daily.

Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.

The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.

The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.

What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.

Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.

On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.

Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?

This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.

Regards,

Scott Shogren

www.teamshogren.com
Scott

WTF are you talking about????

All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments

I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.


oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.

anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!


Regards

Last edited by boatnt; 03-28-2011 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:24 AM
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Scott

WTF are you talking about????

All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments

I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.


oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.

anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!


Regards


So Shogren should pick up the boats, detail/store them and advertise them for free for the owner? Shogren offers a service, not free service. I suspect the boat would be worth more if it was clean, stored in a nice facility to peruse at your leisure 6/7 days a week. No one will pay a premium for a dirty boat, covered by a tarp in a cold barn in upstate Illinois. I strongly suspect that the "detailing fee" is made up easily by the higher resale value.
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