Originally Posted by VtSteve (Post 3359514)

You're obviously not the average dealer Scott. Providing an indoor facility that size, where one can list their boat for sale, as well as the prep, is extraordinary indeed. It also entails an enormous investment. I had a bird inside my shrink wrap last April, because the dealer was "unaware" of screens for the vents. Most everyone has had, at one time or another, a bad experience of some type with a boat dealer. Part of the problem is the seasonal nature of the business in many climates. It's good to see a dealer or two that really is in it for the long term.

Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.

Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.

You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.

Originally Posted by Team Shogren (Post 3360038)

No problem on your position but let me tell you why I don't agree with your position. When most people buy a boat, they do not care who owns it or what price is, they simply want to make an offer for alot less than the asking price no matter what the price is. We get email offers for 50% less than we are asking for boats that are already below low wholesale daily.

Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.

The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.

The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.

What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.

Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.

On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.

Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?

This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.

Regards,

Scott Shogren

www.teamshogren.com

Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 3359970)

Scott

I never said there is no value in a dealer.,never question your ability to sell boats,or question the size of your shop or the hours you are open.
and I agree you do have to invest alot money into your business but the reward are pretty good as well...

The only thing I said is this,its my opinion that boat consignment hurts the value of a boats,

Regards

Originally Posted by Fountain4402 (Post 3360099)

I cant say a broker lowers the value of the boat, it probably highers the value. I mean most people are going to want what they want want for the boat then the broker is going to add on top of that. Sure there are cases where boats are worth X are sold for X, dealer gets x-y% and owners gets X after the dealer cut. But Most boats ive seen at brokers are usually way over priced, rightfully so they have to make their money. I bought a my boat from a broker, and the boat was not even located at the brokers place. So for 10% broker listed boat on internet and passed emails and phone calls along. I guess if you dont have the time or dont want to mess with it, a broker is a good thing. But IMO im not paying somebody thousands of dollars to take a couple of pics and put it on the internet or even to show my boat a couple of times. I know more about it anyways

Originally Posted by Fountain4402 (Post 3360055)

Well said but I have to say if you are using your HELOC to buy a 300,000 boat, Ummm yeah thats about all im going to say

Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 3360134)

I think you are off on this one....I think good brokers for both real estate and boats can be invaluable. MANY times the owner is way off the mark when it comes to valuation of their home/boat whatever. A good broker is selling the boat for you, not just posting a couple pics and taking the commission. They can prevent the buyer/seller from killing each other in the process as well. A good broker won't let you "overprice" whatever you are selling simply because everyone will be disappointed when it doesn't sell or you get an offer that is "way low."

Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.

5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.

Originally Posted by ozarkdevil (Post 3360240)

Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....

Originally Posted by ozarkdevil (Post 3360240)

Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....

Originally Posted by ozarkdevil (Post 3360240)

Yes but with out a broker this sportfish boat could have been sold @ 40K cheaper from the start..... Sounds like a better deal for both buyer & seller....