Shogren on Used Boats: "Be prepared for reality."
#111
I cant say a broker lowers the value of the boat, it probably highers the value. I mean most people are going to want what they want want for the boat then the broker is going to add on top of that. Sure there are cases where boats are worth X are sold for X, dealer gets x-y% and owners gets X after the dealer cut. But Most boats ive seen at brokers are usually way over priced, rightfully so they have to make their money. I bought a my boat from a broker, and the boat was not even located at the brokers place. So for 10% broker listed boat on internet and passed emails and phone calls along. I guess if you dont have the time or dont want to mess with it, a broker is a good thing. But IMO im not paying somebody thousands of dollars to take a couple of pics and put it on the internet or even to show my boat a couple of times. I know more about it anyways
I think you are off on this one....I think good brokers for both real estate and boats can be invaluable. MANY times the owner is way off the mark when it comes to valuation of their home/boat whatever. A good broker is selling the boat for you, not just posting a couple pics and taking the commission. They can prevent the buyer/seller from killing each other in the process as well. A good broker won't let you "overprice" whatever you are selling simply because everyone will be disappointed when it doesn't sell or you get an offer that is "way low."
Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.
5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.
#112
Heck I was at the boat show once, and was wondering why it was so easy for me to afford a brand new $150k, or even $200k Formula. After 15 minutes, I figured it was not such a sharp idea
Without the reckless housing industry puff up from '01 onward, the boating industry wouldn't have suffered from this boom bust cycle. So in that regard, the dealers share in the blame along with everyone else. And here we are.
#113
Registered
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Clinton, Iowa / LOTO 20MM
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you are off on this one....I think good brokers for both real estate and boats can be invaluable. MANY times the owner is way off the mark when it comes to valuation of their home/boat whatever. A good broker is selling the boat for you, not just posting a couple pics and taking the commission. They can prevent the buyer/seller from killing each other in the process as well. A good broker won't let you "overprice" whatever you are selling simply because everyone will be disappointed when it doesn't sell or you get an offer that is "way low."
Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.
5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.
Last week I heard a pretty good broker story. 70 year old guy is selling his sportfish. Boat is nice but pricey for being 8 years old. They negotiate a deal, buyer surveys and finds 5K in broken stuff. Boat is 500K range so 5K in stuff isn't a deal breaker. Boat is repaired and ready for delivery and buyer wants a better deal.....10K more off price. Seller says I will keep it rather than lose 10K more after fixing 5K in survey stuff. Broker eats the the whole 10K (in that range he was making 50K anyway so 40K is better than ZERO). If there was no broker the deal would have fallen apart. Buyer got his 10K off, seller got the agreed price and everyone was happy.
5 years ago the broker would have told the buyer to "pound sand" but in this market they do what it takes to sell a boat! In this case the seller would have thrown the guy off the property and the buyer would have just looked to find another boat.
#114
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: miami fla.
Posts: 1,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When selling a boat at this time I would say that accommodating the financing is a huge plus.
Last edited by lowblue320; 03-26-2011 at 12:56 PM.
#115
For a 10K boat, you certainly don't need a broker. For the big dollar stuff you probably won't be successful without one (they can get financing/take trades etc).
Last edited by Jupiter Sunsation; 03-26-2011 at 12:16 PM.
#116
Registered
And if the seller had sold privately for 40k less he would still have the same amount of money.
#117
Registered
Hard to say that NADA should be used for a fire starter when that is what most banks have and still use for reference for their loans.
Last edited by SC288; 03-28-2011 at 08:11 AM.
#118
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lake Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well after reading this thread, I was scared the death. I placed my boat on craigslist on Thursday and sold it on Saturday. Oh and I sold it for $1k less than I paid for it 3yrs ago. Now granted I busted my balls keeping it spotless and bringing out the best it could look, which I totally believe helped me get sell it so easily.
Last edited by bert4332; 03-27-2011 at 10:07 PM.
#119
Registered
iTrader: (1)
No problem on your position but let me tell you why I don't agree with your position. When most people buy a boat, they do not care who owns it or what price is, they simply want to make an offer for alot less than the asking price no matter what the price is. We get email offers for 50% less than we are asking for boats that are already below low wholesale daily.
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
Last edited by boatnt; 03-28-2011 at 06:56 AM.
#120
Scott
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
So Shogren should pick up the boats, detail/store them and advertise them for free for the owner? Shogren offers a service, not free service. I suspect the boat would be worth more if it was clean, stored in a nice facility to peruse at your leisure 6/7 days a week. No one will pay a premium for a dirty boat, covered by a tarp in a cold barn in upstate Illinois. I strongly suspect that the "detailing fee" is made up easily by the higher resale value.