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On engines, fuel, energy, and a reality check

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Old 04-15-2011, 01:36 PM
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I will say this about carbs.

A buddy I went to high school with had a 1984 Camero Experimental (yes it actually said that on the car). Car had a 350 in it. Thing was very powerful for the time, and got unreal gas mileage. Somewhere in the range of 50 miles to the gallon.

after about 1.5 years of owning it, the car began to run a bit poorly compared to what it had been. So he took it into the dealer, thinking it just needed an adjustment. Both of us being 18 at the time knew nothing about engines. Anyway they take the car in the bay and open the hood.

After a couple of minutes every mechanic in the place is looking at the engine of this car. They all seemed to have a baffled look on their faces. The manager comes back and says it is gonna be a couple days before his car will be fixed, so we called his dad for a ride home. Never really thinking anything about it.

A couple of days go by and the dealer calls him to say his car is fixed. When he goes to pick it up they tell him that it had some experimental fuel dilivery system on it, that was not supposed to go to the general public. They had to change his engine over to a standard system, and it would be no cost to him for the repair.

From that day forward the car was never the same. No where near the power it had before, and fuel milage of less than 15 MPG. True story!
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:38 PM
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I dont buy the majority of that nonsense. You really expect me to believe, that if GM had bought up some carb or water powered engine that got phenomenol mpg that we wouldnt see it right now?
I used to think the very same thing. The profits would be astronomical for any company involved in the production of water engines.


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You realize the amount of units they would move? Even if the water car cost $100k, it would still sell like crazy because you would never have to buy gasoline again. I just dont buy the coverups.
That is exactly the reason why this technology has been suppressed. The people in control of the oil are some of the most powerful individuals on the planet. They want to maintain that status quo . They want to remain in control of the world's primary energy resource. It has nothing at all to do with monetary gain.



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And the synthetic gasoline link.... Cherry was using Kerosene to make it, which is a hydrocarbon, so it isnt really synthetic. A true synthetic gasoline would be more like what they are trying now with algea byproducts.
Agreed, however it goes to show that we all could be enjoying, at the very least, cheap gasoline presently. Cherry developed a method of making high quality gas from waste materials. While it pales in comparison to water, it is still a novel and interesting concept.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:41 PM
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:24 PM
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Riddle me this batman... Somebody said this to me and it got me thinking? In the 60s and 70s you had cars getting 5-10 mpg and they had 20 or more gallon fuel tanks, now the tanks are smaller and theyt are getting 3 to 4 times this a gallon. Do you think that the oil companys over head went down? No they need to make the same amount of money, so who do you think controls this whole screw up??? just sayin makes you think...
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:13 PM
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[QUOTE=vette131;3377490]
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I will say this about carbs.

A buddy I roomed with at the group home had a 1984 Camero Mental (yes it actually said that on car).

True story![ /QUOTE. Now that's funny!!
His blood sugar must have gotten too low from the low carb diet and the details got a little fuzzy.....
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:29 PM
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His blood sugar must have gotten too low from the low carb diet and the details got a little fuzzy.....
Well poke all the fun you want. I'm a big boy and can take it.

What I stated is a true story, not made up. You can belive it, or you can belive that the oil companys don't have a vested intrest in keeping you addicted to thier products.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightlife1970 View Post
I will say this about carbs.

A buddy I went to high school with had a 1984 Camero Experimental (yes it actually said that on the car). Car had a 350 in it. Thing was very powerful for the time, and got unreal gas mileage. Somewhere in the range of 50 miles to the gallon.

after about 1.5 years of owning it, the car began to run a bit poorly compared to what it had been. So he took it into the dealer, thinking it just needed an adjustment. Both of us being 18 at the time knew nothing about engines. Anyway they take the car in the bay and open the hood.

After a couple of minutes every mechanic in the place is looking at the engine of this car. They all seemed to have a baffled look on their faces. The manager comes back and says it is gonna be a couple days before his car will be fixed, so we called his dad for a ride home. Never really thinking anything about it.

A couple of days go by and the dealer calls him to say his car is fixed. When he goes to pick it up they tell him that it had some experimental fuel dilivery system on it, that was not supposed to go to the general public. They had to change his engine over to a standard system, and it would be no cost to him for the repair.

From that day forward the car was never the same. No where near the power it had before, and fuel milage of less than 15 MPG. True story!

Don't know how I missed this post when it's on both pages.

I have read about how the big three would (and still do, no doubt) use existing patents filed by lone inventors to try out different things on experimental vehicles. In fact, I have heard stories from the old-timers of my locale talk about a 1950's era straight-six, four door, plane-jane Chrysler whose carburetor was experimental in nature, and made in Canada. It was installed right from the factory. The car reportedly got near 60 MPG and could walk away from any high performance V-8 car that challenged it. At the time, I didn't place much stock in the story, but when I found all this out. It fell in place mighty quick.

Many thanks for posting that, Nightlife. Very interesting.

To those gentlemen who poked fun, and to any who might feel so inclined to do likewise: all I ask is that it be kept light-hearted and in good taste.

Last edited by JP-8; 04-15-2011 at 11:39 PM. Reason: To correct a spelling error
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:09 PM
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Riddle me this batman... Somebody said this to me and it got me thinking? In the 60s and 70s you had cars getting 5-10 mpg and they had 20 or more gallon fuel tanks, now the tanks are smaller and theyt are getting 3 to 4 times this a gallon. Do you think that the oil companys over head went down? No they need to make the same amount of money, so who do you think controls this whole screw up??? just sayin makes you think...

That is a very intriguing observation. It's funny that until the gas crunch in the 70's, no one was terribly concerned with a vehicle's fuel economy. Then when the crunch was in full swing with gas rationing, the big three produced some of the most luxurious automobiles that ever rolled of the assembly line with big 460 FE's and Caddy's massive 500. Call 'em what you will, but those 70's Towncars and El Dorados with their crushed velvet interiors were pure class.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:28 AM
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A 1984 Camaro going 70mph and getting 15mpg would have an engine efficiency of just under 20%*.

The exact same car (same frontal area, same drag coefficient, same weight, same rolling resistance, same auxiliaries parasitic losses, same drive line losses, etc) getting 50mpg at the same speed would require an engine efficiency of over 60%*. And that's with an 8.6:1 CR long block.

That's about 10 points higher than the most efficient engines on Earth - cargo ship engines. I'll let ya'll judge the likelyhood of the validity of that claim**.



*calculations and references available upon request.
**it's not physically possible in reality. Sorry, the laws of physics don't bend.
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:56 AM
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Exactly!!
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