Like Tree0Likes

On engines, fuel, energy, and a reality check

Reply
Old 04-17-2011, 05:17 PM
  #41
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Steve 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Beautiful Fort Lauderdale www.cheetahcat.com
My Boats: Slippery when wet!
Posts: 10,833
Default

Over the years ,we have all heard these claims,there is only so much energy in a gallon of gasoline and I would expect ,the old Piston Aircraft engineers or our Formula one guys would have come up with this long ago.
Steve 1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 05:30 PM
  #42
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
My Boats: '83 Sea Ray SRV-260 DA
Posts: 141
Default

Thought this video would fit in well with the discussion.

It may not be the most convenient means of powering a vehicle, but it is a well implemented design that looks to be of very high quality. Fuel availability would be no problem at all.

I wonder how many of these are still left over from WWII.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSgL0Ie4zrI[/YOUTUBE]

Last edited by JP-8; 04-17-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Fixed the link
JP-8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 05:29 AM
  #43
Registered
 
vette131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Slidell,La
My Boats: 26 american offshore ,28 donzi 33 Scarab
Posts: 1,113
Default

got to love all the green people getting so excited about a coal powered car!!
vette131 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 08:42 AM
  #44
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
My Boats: 94 Powerquest Legend 257
Posts: 544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP-8 View Post
I do indeed, and find your assumption of the contrary to be a tad insulting, but I do understand the bent of your argument. See below.




Cherry's method remains distinctly different (and superior) from those methods currently adhered to by the world's refineries which are: Fluid catalytic cracking, Hydrocracking, and Steam cracking.

None of those methods use the high-tension, high frequency, electrical current method that Cherry devised.

The article was merely intended to point out that the refining process could be streamlined, thus reducing the cost of operation.

Its inclusion was meant to be purely anecdotal, and not the main focus.

I've no aversion to a bit of healthy nitpicking, but seriously, folks.
Perhaps because it cannot be used on a large scale.

Seriously, there is a huge difference between what will work in a lab / small scale pilot plant and what will work in a plant that must produce 100's of thousands of barrels a day. Scale up is not nit-piking - it is real. Do you have any idea how you could generate 'high tension, high frequency" current on a mega-watt scale? The largest reliable semi-conductor devices available are in the 1-3 kilowatt scale.

My company spent twelve years and well over 1MM USD trying to develop microwave technologies for production. The result was that it worked in the pilot plant size with great efficiency but but was not as efficient as the current methods when scaled up.

It's worth noting that we bought the patent AND hired the inventor, so we were not hampered by our poor understanding of alternatives, crippled by our preconceived notions, or whatever excuse people often give when lab ideas fail. The inventor was disappointed as well, since he he a % of every pound we sold using his invention. However, he was in the scale up, and he recognized that it did not fulfill it's promise.

Sometimes, it just won't scale up, or when scaled up, becomes less efficient or productive. You don't have to build a huge plant or 100s of engines to find that out.
apollard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 10:01 AM
  #45
Registered
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sandusky, OH
My Boats: Formula
Posts: 49
Default

Oh, I once saw a pig fly - Honest!
instigator31 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
  #46
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
My Boats: '83 Sea Ray SRV-260 DA
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollard View Post
Perhaps because it cannot be used on a large scale.

Seriously, there is a huge difference between what will work in a lab / small scale pilot plant and what will work in a plant that must produce 100's of thousands of barrels a day. Scale up is not nit-piking - it is real. Do you have any idea how you could generate 'high tension, high frequency" current on a mega-watt scale? The largest reliable semi-conductor devices available are in the 1-3 kilowatt scale.

My company spent twelve years and well over 1MM USD trying to develop microwave technologies for production. The result was that it worked in the pilot plant size with great efficiency but but was not as efficient as the current methods when scaled up.

It's worth noting that we bought the patent AND hired the inventor, so we were not hampered by our poor understanding of alternatives, crippled by our preconceived notions, or whatever excuse people often give when lab ideas fail. The inventor was disappointed as well, since he he a % of every pound we sold using his invention. However, he was in the scale up, and he recognized that it did not fulfill it's promise.

Sometimes, it just won't scale up, or when scaled up, becomes less efficient or productive. You don't have to build a huge plant or 100s of engines to find that out.
All good points, to be sure. I make no effort whatsoever to argue against them, as I can't rightly call myself well-versed in the art of refining petroleum.

If anything, my aim was to illustrate that there is no need to charge so much for a gallon of fuel. The oil consortiums of the world could easily make a nice profit the honest way, but as is often the case, greed begets the desire for control.
JP-8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 01:20 AM
  #47
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
My Boats: '83 Sea Ray SRV-260 DA
Posts: 141
Default

I had occasion recently to peruse a Feb, 1937 issue of Popular Science magazine. Towards the back, I happened upon these two advertisements which caught my interest. Most fascinating.








As I go back and read through the responses to this thread, there is, more or less, a fairly even divide between those who understand and acknowledge the existence of this sort technology, and those who find themselves uncomfortable with the notion due to a definite disinclination (or outright inability) to contemplate the reasoning behind its lack of mainstream implementation. Even when presented with documented proof.

Folks, it isn't just a fantasy. It has been done before, and it is desperately needed now.
JP-8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 10:47 AM
  #48
Registered
 
On Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Houston
My Boats: 2005 42 Fountain, 1998 Marlago 35 FS, 2007 Sea Ray 230 Fission
Posts: 3,479
Default

Look - somebody needs to inject some logic into this thread!

The intrigue of conspiracy is always entertaining. But in todays world, with China pirating new movies from illegal pre-release copies hot-shotted over there, I am certain either China or some other interest not encumbered by our laws, fines or loyalties would find a way to produce a technology so far superior to existing methods. It would just simply be so immeasurably profitable it could not be kept secret.

Next we'll be hearing about the Fountain of Youth the oil companies bought the rights to and are keeping hidden...
On Time is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 03:44 PM
  #49
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Charleston, il
My Boats: 1988 formula 311 sr-1
Posts: 631
Default

Also funny how Ford recovered all the electric Ranger Pickups from the 90's ...... I believe they were all destroyed??? Maybe someone can chime in here. I think they were on a lease basis and returned to Ford. Makes you wonder, I would love to have one now for my business.
TylerBurich is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 07:17 AM
  #50
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware
My Boats: 2006 Kryptonite 29'
Posts: 1,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454captiva View Post
Also funny how Ford recovered all the electric Ranger Pickups from the 90's ...... I believe they were all destroyed??? Maybe someone can chime in here. I think they were on a lease basis and returned to Ford. Makes you wonder, I would love to have one now for my business.
It was Chevy and it was the S-10. As far as i know, Ford didnt have any electric ones. They were leased to government campuses, military bases. After they reached the end of their servicable life they were demilled, the batteries were removed, the wiring harnesses cut. Only somewhere around 55 are still left, but GM wont sell you the batteries for them.

I know of one for sale, new larger batteries, chargers both 220v and 110v. Guy drives it to work everyday, gets a bit over 100miles on a charge.
Philm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.