Gen V 502 rebuild and tweaking.
 

Ok guys I've been seeing low oil pressure on my gev V 502, it started life as an OMC spitfire ignition engine but now sports a standard style distributor etc. I'm going to have it pulled and rebuilt, but while it's out maybe warming it up a bit. The motor already has stainless marine manifolds on it and was thinking about simply taking .020 of the heads and putting a mild cam in it to get to about 500 HP -- nothing crazy. Also maybe changing it over to a roller motor, are there bolt in kits for this?

Any suggestions/specs/etc. would be helpfull!

Let's hear your ideas, GO!

I know you like to do work on your engines but machining work is too
important to leave to just any local shop. You have two good options
within a one day drive.

Your closest option is: http://www.crockettmarineengines.com/products.html
Tyler's kits make good power.

Your best option is: http://www.youngperformancemarine.com/
Eddie is the best one stop shop.

What kind of $$$ would this kind of freshening up be?

This guys does rebuild for a bunch of marina's around Detroit -- he's on Livernois and something, I can't remeber the cross street. He does all the maching except the block.

Tyler Crocket is out man, I called him three times over the last month and also e-mailed and never got a response. I don't care how good you are, with that kind of service I'll never give him a dime.

The starting point here is $2800 depending on what he finds it will only go up. The machine work and a new cam will be minimal additional cost, and depending if I convert to a roller cam. He magnaflux's the heads and block as well.

I'm certainly open to options here -- I'll give youngs performance a ring, they are inprogress of pulling the motor now.

Eddie Eddie Eddie Eddie Eddie
 

I just figured 90 miles vs. 500+ miles it would be a good option. Too
bad for Tyler I guess! :eek:

I won't have a shop R & R the engine, a 2nd one do machine work, a
3rd or 4th spec/order parts then someone else dyno tune and then
"in water" test and "final" tune an engine.That is just not worth it to
me. I had enough headaches just doing a simple engine swap.

Eddie's shop is the best option for me. He will also address your fuel
supply and oil cooling needs should you go over 500 ponies. Those are
some of the little things that will bite you in the a$$ when you try to do
things yourself when you might not know what to even look out for.
Best of luck whatever you decide.

Any cam specs or recommendations etc? I'll buy new valve springs to match. The GM performance site sucks, it only lists three cams, or is the stock 502 cam pretty good?

Fixx
 

cam ? call bob @ marine kinetics 585-654-8583 he is the marine cam god!

Maybe something simpler, since I'm planning on moving to a roller cam -- how about the specs of an existing engine, say a mercruiser HP500, anyone know where I can get the specifics?

Gotta believe somebody knows this stuff here, maybe I'm talking crazy, so somebody set me straight.

Fixx
 

call bob,,he had better cam choices then the hp 500 cam..

trust me on this one,,,search his name here..

You should see Frank at Scorpion racing engines he is in Livonia. Thats only about 20 30 min from you.

Thanks guys, I'll check both of those out tomorrow.

I figured this we be pretty easy to find out, but with all stuff I'm reading I want to get this right.

I talked to Bob today, pretty awesome guy, seemed really willing to help. Once it's completely torn down and magnafluxed we'll get back in touch and he'll help me sort through the combination.

Thank you everyone for the recommendations.

Just because you asked, here are the specs for the HP500 cam. However, as mentioned, I don't think it would be a good choice. You are on the right track. Do it once, do it right. Bob will steer you in the right direction on the cam.

Crane # 169611
Grind # HR 284-2S-10-IG
222/230 @ .050
.576/.598 110*

Let me know if I can help in any way.
Eddie

Since you offered -- do you guys sell a complete rotating assembly? The more I look it may not be hardly any more expensive to buy the whole thing. Then the question is what to do with the heads....

why am I feeling this going to get expensive in a hurry...

Gimme head!
 

I spoke to Tyler, Madera, and Eddie about the "head dilemma" myself.
Although good power can be made with the stock iron heads the
amount of work needed to make them work will be only marginally
cheaper than new aluminum heads set up for your application. I know
my little boat responds favorably to any weight reduction and yours
might also. If and when you decide 500 ponies is not enough the use
of new technology aluminum heads would make the step to the next
level much easier. Have Eddie spec a cam and head combo set-up
properly so all you have to do is bolt them on.

This is kinda where I'm headed already...seeing it's not much cheaper to do it the way I'd planned, what heads do you guys like? You are right by the time I get the valve-train, have it shipped, get it installed it almost seems like complete heads are a no brainer...get a custom cam and then decide about the compression. We will see since a complete rotating assembly for a 540 isn't much more than going with the original 502, I already have an 850 Holley carb on it (which is way overkill), and just get a new intake. Have my guy prep the block and assemble it with the correct push-rod lengths and be done. If I was already thinking 4, whats $5 k so I'll be happy with it for a long time....this is path I hoped I wouldn't end up on :)

The only thing I'm worried about is the hull, not sure it will be stable at much higher speeds than I was already seeing....

As far as the heads go, you are right, this is the time to go to aluminum heads. You already have to replace all of the hardware in the heads. The problem is that the hardware for the cast iron heads is all different than what you would use in the alum. heads. If you decided in a year that you wanted alum heads, then you would have to buy the hardware all over again. It doesn't cost any more or any less to buy valves, springs, retainers, locks, etc for an alum head than it does for a steel head. It's just different parts. So, right now, you are only out the price of the bare heads in addition to what you are already going to spend. That doesn't include any work that the steel heads need. They may need several hundreds of dollars of machine work (new guides, new seats, bronze liners in guides, valve job, etc) The price difference will get smaller and smaller. Bottom line is that it will cost you way less to do it now then it will later on.
As far as the rotating assembly, I don't have a "package" if you will. Everything we do is done for a particular customer with his or her hp goals, budget, speed goals, etc taken into account. There is no one size fits all. I can get anything that you would like. Ultimitely, it depends on the power you want to make. You may be just fine with the stock 4" crank. However, I would replace the rods. The stock rods are not worth fooling with. We can take the bore up to 4.530 (516 ci). This will also really help unshroud the larger valves in those shiny new aluminum heads. We could easily make 600 hp without having to replace the crank. And do it on cheaper fuel. If you want to run premium, then 625hp or more is possible.
There are tons of options. Give me a shout and we can go over some alternatives.
Eddie

I disagree, there's nothing wrong with the factory forged rods. If it's going to spin 6000+ I'll upgrade the bolts but that's about it.
Bob Madara can sell you a complete "package" from the ground up, or a cam and valve train to match what you've already got. There's absolutely no problem making 600+ on 89 octane with a 509" motor.

Just out of curiosity Eddie, what kind of dyno do you have at your shop and do you run your motors in full marine trim with wet exhaust?

You right, there is nothing wrong with the stock rods. However, by the time you buy new rod bolts, resize them, balance them, etc. you are more than 3/4 of the way to a set of H-beams. On top of that, you still have a rod with a pressed pin, where as the H-beams have a bushed small end for a floating pin and much stronger cap screws. That's $75-$100 I will spend any day of the week. At no point did I say they wouldnt work. I just said that they aren't worth it.
It's not about strength, it's common sense. For some reason, you feel compelled to argue and disagree with me any chance you get. That's fine. I'm just not sure why. I'm not about to turn this man's thread into a pissing match. If you have a problem with me, then contact me.
Eddie

Not trying to turn anything into a pissing match. The OP sounds like he might need a hone, rings, bearings, and a top end kit. I was just pointing out that there's nothing wrong with his factory rods for that application. He could most likely use everything he's got and spend his money on a decent top end.

I don't mind throwing my 2cents in or correcting anyone and expect the same if I give advice on a forum that could cost someone time and money they don't need to waste. I'm not picking on you but when I see a statement like "your stock rods aren't worth messing with", or when you recommend a gapless second ring for a blower application and say you use them all the time, or tell a guy he's over balanced when he's under balanced, or tell a guy he can use a hydraulic roller on a cam he can't, or you can't do anything with Vortec heads, or... Well you get the picture. Mostly i don't bother posting but sometimes I can't help.

I don't know what it is but I'm starting to like stevesxm more and more everyday and agreeing with most of his posts.. :drink:

I guess the post with the comment about me inventing this and that wasn't you? For some reason you are trying to piss me off. I never claimed to invent anything. Just showing what I did that I thought was pretty cool. If you don't, then keep your opinions to yourself.
As for the rods, I don't think they are worth messing with. That's my opinion. If you don't agree, that's fine. That's your opinion. I present that same scenario to customers daily and 95% of them choose to go with the aftermarket rods. That's where that comment comes from. I let them make the choice to spend that $100. Personally, I think you would be foolish to not replace them for that little bit on money. Again, my opinion. You don't have to agree with it.
As for the second gapless ring, they go in just about every engine I build. Since none of them come back in pieces, I would think that something must be right. I have been using them for well over 10 years, in blower apps. You have no idea what you are talking about on this one.
I don't recall the over/under balance, but I suppose it is possible that I made a mistake. I have been known to make one or two. I guess that never happened to you.
As for the lifters, my exact words were that I don't see a big problem with it. I didn't recommend it. He was asking if it was possible. The reply that Bob made was that he would advise against it. That doesn't mean he can't nor does it mean that it won't work. It's not ideal and he knew that.
Vortec heads.....go port a set and let me know how well it goes. I have the upmost respect for Mark Boos and I would bet that he would tell you same thing. He's tried it in the past and it didn't work. He has told me so. Just like the rods.... not worth it. For what you will spend working them you can replace them with something better.
Somehow you manage to twist my words around to mean what you want them to mean. I about tired of it and your smartass remarks. Ya barking up the wrong tree. I certainly do not have a problem being corrected if I make a mistake. I'm human and it happens. However, if something is my opinion, it's my opinion. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it wrong. Maybe you shouldn't bother posting more often.
Eddie

Dart Iron eagle heads can be had at good prices.

Wannabe

This is getting good.. Guess I struck a nerve. Maybe we should start another thread to discuss it in greater detail, or wait a couple more months till boating season is over and everyone needs some entertainment.

Are you sure Mark wasn't talking about big block vortec's? I know how much of a gain can be had from even a really good valve job on a sbc vortec. Ask any circle track racer.. But what do I know, how dare I question the all knowing Eddie. I think there might be a little Sunkin in you..

I am in your back yard and build most of the fastest boats in our area. Go to my site and you should recognize most of them.

I take it back.

Yeah somebody told me about you at my marina -- a guy with a sunsation at the humbug rack n' launch (I'm pretty sure they put my Liberator right next to him to give me little pp syndrome :) ).

PM me your # and we can talk.

I'm not looking for super fast, I'm looking for solid a reliable performance, I have no delusions that this is a fast hull, nor do I want 600 horsepower since I don't even know if my hull can handle that kind of speed, I'm guessing no. Bob @ Marine Kinetics has been more than helpful so far and hasn't tried to push anything on me.. I mean a lot of this is theoretical until I get my magnaflux results and I'm not going to decide on anything firmly until then. Once I know that I can actually put some decisions in concrete.

I'll do the heads if mine require major work, if my crank is bad, I'll stroke it etc etc. I don't want a fire breathing 540+ c.u. motor, but I'd gladly take one that will make 500+ horse on a mild cam, idle at 700, and cruise all day at 2800 rpm so I can still do pleasure boating, tubing, cruising, and the occasional time where I throw on water ski's.

If I was looking to set speed records, this just ain't the right boat, but it's in my price range (even with all this work), rides phenomenal for it's size and is generally comfortable for my family trust me if I wanted a fire breather I would have bought it.

<group hug>

Had a long talk with a mutual friend this morning and Haxbyspeed is spot on here and a reputable builder.In my years on OSO I never really followed Eddie's post's but thought he was one of the big shooters......my mistake.

We've talked about a lot here (and somethings a little off subject :)), but what about a good intake?

Factory carb is a Holley 850 vacuum secondaries (which I have) and I have a Holley 850 mechanical secondaries on it now. Any opinions either way and a good intake to match would be appreciated.

Also if ti turns out the heads are in decent shape and don't require a lot of work, what about a higher ratio rocker and the stock cam? going to a 1.8 ratio gets about .530 lift, I would think that would net decent improvement. over stock and sure would be a cheap route...the more I think about going roller, the more expensive it's getting and I've got to draw a line somewhere...

hell yea ......#1

I'm on it guys! :)

Can anyone provide me with a link, or a list of the original parts and part numbers for a Gen V 502 HO? Casting # is 14097088.