Outerlimits sets new record
09-28-2011, 04:13 PM
#171
Allergic to Nonsense
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Location: Granite Quarry, NC
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still there's no poker runners showing up despite they having their own class for it. I have once managed to overspeak a guy with a week old 35 Fountain to participate.., still he told he'd never driven that long at 10/10ths before.. all in all 56 mins.
In an endurance race anything can happen so I'd never be worried about someone's other stuff.
In an endurance race anything can happen so I'd never be worried about someone's other stuff.
09-28-2011, 04:29 PM
#172
This is Exactly why there is limited interest in racing today......not the frequency of events, but the policy of catering to weekend warriors who "need" a boatload of rules, classes, course limits, comfort, convenience and a slew of other things that run contrary to the very core of long haul, no holds barred, endurance/marathon racing. A marathon is just that... a marathon...not a mini marathon...not a segmented marathon.. and certainly not 8 or 9 (GPS or non GPS) controlled laps on a 5 mile course in a bay or lake.....nor a "speed run" at some bar.
Your needs are precisely what begat Poker Runs and Shootouts, which are not events that real racers or real racing fans get excited about....yet I respect the need for such venues. Pretty girls in bikinis, oysters and drinks, showing off your big shiny motors, pulling up in your Lambo....I get it! On the other hand real racers are competitive in a more primal way and want very few "accomodations" beyond the opportunity to compete, especially when pitting themselves against other opponents and mother nature simultaneously. We built 30 foot cats that outran vee bottoms 6 to 10 feet longer in very rough seas over hundreds of miles and never worried about what was "fair" (of course the vee bottom builders used that word a lot..but that's another story)...and..... we could party with the best of them....AFTER the race (and sometimes after we had the sutures put in).
As to the earlier comments from another poster about older racers not being able to handle the "tight cornering" in today's races..... I submit that many of us "geezers" ran multiple closed course boat races in boats ranging from outboard hydros to twin engine vees, to tunnel boats, to inboard flat bottoms and hydros at speeds and in close quarters that would crimp your sphincter...as well as Offshore events. (I raced most of those...some, like Billy Sirois and Odell Lewis, did it all). Get back to me after you've run 9 hours on a 4 mile course in and out of Miami Marine stadium against 150+ boats, or 8 hours at Havasu or the Parker 9 hour...etc, etc. Further, your comment about "turning at 150 mph" is nonsense....Today's cats may peak out at 200 (occasionally...rarely in a race) but they turn at the same limits as anything else..... well south of your estimate. As far as a 70 MPH turn in a big vee bottom... that really "ain't no thang" other than to put a hull designed for rough water straightaways in the wrong environment, while encouraging a large group of clueless wannabes to emulate you and decorate the waterways with their hapless passengers as they spin out in their stepped bottom glamour boats.
At the core of this debate is the significant difference between today's racing and racers and the older, rougher, nastier version(s) that formed the foundation of the sport. Those who lived and raced in the days of big fleets and 150+ mile courses in big seas have a lot to contribute and might know more than you give us credit for. You see, at the end of the day, we have the benefit of seeing and experiencing the current model against the a background of the original version, but folks who can't listen and learn from the past very rarely have much of value to say. Of course that doen't mean they don't talk alot.
T2x
P.S...... I'm Back!
Your needs are precisely what begat Poker Runs and Shootouts, which are not events that real racers or real racing fans get excited about....yet I respect the need for such venues. Pretty girls in bikinis, oysters and drinks, showing off your big shiny motors, pulling up in your Lambo....I get it! On the other hand real racers are competitive in a more primal way and want very few "accomodations" beyond the opportunity to compete, especially when pitting themselves against other opponents and mother nature simultaneously. We built 30 foot cats that outran vee bottoms 6 to 10 feet longer in very rough seas over hundreds of miles and never worried about what was "fair" (of course the vee bottom builders used that word a lot..but that's another story
)...and..... we could party with the best of them....AFTER the race (and sometimes after we had the sutures put in).As to the earlier comments from another poster about older racers not being able to handle the "tight cornering" in today's races..... I submit that many of us "geezers" ran multiple closed course boat races in boats ranging from outboard hydros to twin engine vees, to tunnel boats, to inboard flat bottoms and hydros at speeds and in close quarters that would crimp your sphincter...as well as Offshore events. (I raced most of those...some, like Billy Sirois and Odell Lewis, did it all). Get back to me after you've run 9 hours on a 4 mile course in and out of Miami Marine stadium against 150+ boats, or 8 hours at Havasu or the Parker 9 hour...etc, etc. Further, your comment about "turning at 150 mph" is nonsense....Today's cats may peak out at 200 (occasionally...rarely in a race) but they turn at the same limits as anything else..... well south of your estimate. As far as a 70 MPH turn in a big vee bottom... that really "ain't no thang" other than to put a hull designed for rough water straightaways in the wrong environment, while encouraging a large group of clueless wannabes to emulate you and decorate the waterways with their hapless passengers as they spin out in their stepped bottom glamour boats.
At the core of this debate is the significant difference between today's racing and racers and the older, rougher, nastier version(s) that formed the foundation of the sport. Those who lived and raced in the days of big fleets and 150+ mile courses in big seas have a lot to contribute and might know more than you give us credit for. You see, at the end of the day, we have the benefit of seeing and experiencing the current model against the a background of the original version, but folks who can't listen and learn from the past very rarely have much of value to say. Of course that doen't mean they don't talk alot.
T2x
P.S...... I'm Back!
In an endurance race anything can happen so I'd never be worried about someone's other stuff.
I was thinking some of these same things when I saw his comments. He wants gifts, he wants his ego stroked, he wants equality in the name of giving himself a better chance of winning. It is a MARATHON. He who prepare best and keeps his equipment together the whole time has just as good a chance of winning as the POTENTIALLY faster boat.
Should the NYC Marathon be broken up into classes of runners by height and leg length?
09-28-2011, 04:46 PM
#173
Registered
What I meant in a marathon race I concentrate on my equipment. And how to make it last to the checkered flag. That's enough to worry about.
09-28-2011, 04:49 PM
#174
Registered
Just in from Billy and the NPBA www.nationalpowerboat.com
2011 Don Aronow Marathon
Race Around Long Island
RECAP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A new record has been set for a speedboat to circumnavigate Long Island… 3 hours and 5 minutes, set Sunday, Sept 25, 2011 by Joe Cibellis and Joe Sgro.
They did the 271 mile course, non-stop in a 43' Outerlimits powerboat powered by twin 725 HP Ilmor engines.
This is the comeback of the event that Don Aronow pioneered back in the early 60’s. After moving to the JerseyShore in 1970, the event went dormant. It was resurrected last year by the National Powerboat Association in affiliation with the Historic Offshore Raceboat Association, Manhasset Bay Marina and Don’s son, Michael Aronow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The previous champion and record holder for this feat was Stu Hayim, of Ferrari of Long Island fame, with Joey Impresscia and Adam Levy as crew, who did it in 3 hours and 6 minutes in 1989 in his 32’ Skater with twin 650 HP Eickert engines.
After attempting and failing twice, Stu was able to finish on his third try and establish a new record by beating the 1968 record of Bill Sirois and Fred Kiekhaefer who completed the course in 3 hours and 59 minutes in a 32’ Bertram with 475 HP Mercruisers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Entrants and their results:
19’ Monza/Donzi with a 351 Homan and Moody driveline. Brian Zellner and Lon Price from Virginia took the start and made it to Hempstead Bay before the ignition box failed, leaving them with NO-Spark. They were safely towed in.
30’ Sonic SS with 350 Chevies, and last year’s winner, Connecticut’s Joe DeFusco with his son, Joe DeFusco IV, ran their race and made it to the Atlantic Ocean off Montauk Point before losing an outdrive. They came home on the trailer.
42’ Outerlimits with 1075 HP’s from Brick, NJ, with Dr. Gabe Jasper and Rolf Papke at the helm, diced for the lead at over 100 mph, but lost ‘boost’ when a tensioner bracket broke causing the belt to fail. They continued on at 60 mph with one motor, until a universal vibration sent them to the trailer at LongBeach.
38’ Fountain Center-Console Sport Fish, “Road Runner”, with quad Mercury 300 HP Outboards, owned and captained by Norm Salem from Stamford, CT and crewed by Bob Kolenberg, Jim Troy and Dan Pickering of ThinkFast Films, broke the old Outboard Record of 5 hours and 22 minutes by completing the course in 4 hours and 15 minutes.
This boat holds the record as the fastest center-console at 87+ MPH. She is a DUAL TITLE Holder.
25’ Active Thunder with 500 HP was captained by owner Chris Philindas of RiverheadNY, and crewed by the ‘Phantom Bronx Race Team’. They ran very hard and held third place until Orient Point, where they suffered engine issues and ended up trailering down the Long Island Expressway with a few crewmembers riding in the boat…they only got pulled over once by the Police!
43’ Outerlimits with Ilmor 725 HPs, Joe Cibellis and JoeSgro from New York…what more can be said…they completed the course in RECORD TIME: 3 Hours and 5 minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awards went to Guy Lamotta for his continued support of Offshore Racing, Brian Zellner for the ‘Spirit of the NPBA”, Norm Salem, the New Outboard Record Holder for Around Long Island, and to Joe Cibellis and Joe Sgro for the new RECORD TIME AROUND LONG ISLAND.
A special ‘Shout Out’ and Thank You go to Tommy Abraham and Jimmy McIntyre for their help making this event a great success.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 22, 2012 is the date for next year’s
Around Long Island Marathon.
The Rain date will be September 23rd.
The field will thicken…the Europeans will come…don’t miss it!!!
Billy Frenz
2011 Don Aronow Marathon
Race Around Long Island
RECAP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A new record has been set for a speedboat to circumnavigate Long Island… 3 hours and 5 minutes, set Sunday, Sept 25, 2011 by Joe Cibellis and Joe Sgro.
They did the 271 mile course, non-stop in a 43' Outerlimits powerboat powered by twin 725 HP Ilmor engines.
This is the comeback of the event that Don Aronow pioneered back in the early 60’s. After moving to the JerseyShore in 1970, the event went dormant. It was resurrected last year by the National Powerboat Association in affiliation with the Historic Offshore Raceboat Association, Manhasset Bay Marina and Don’s son, Michael Aronow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The previous champion and record holder for this feat was Stu Hayim, of Ferrari of Long Island fame, with Joey Impresscia and Adam Levy as crew, who did it in 3 hours and 6 minutes in 1989 in his 32’ Skater with twin 650 HP Eickert engines.
After attempting and failing twice, Stu was able to finish on his third try and establish a new record by beating the 1968 record of Bill Sirois and Fred Kiekhaefer who completed the course in 3 hours and 59 minutes in a 32’ Bertram with 475 HP Mercruisers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Entrants and their results:
19’ Monza/Donzi with a 351 Homan and Moody driveline. Brian Zellner and Lon Price from Virginia took the start and made it to Hempstead Bay before the ignition box failed, leaving them with NO-Spark. They were safely towed in.
30’ Sonic SS with 350 Chevies, and last year’s winner, Connecticut’s Joe DeFusco with his son, Joe DeFusco IV, ran their race and made it to the Atlantic Ocean off Montauk Point before losing an outdrive. They came home on the trailer.
42’ Outerlimits with 1075 HP’s from Brick, NJ, with Dr. Gabe Jasper and Rolf Papke at the helm, diced for the lead at over 100 mph, but lost ‘boost’ when a tensioner bracket broke causing the belt to fail. They continued on at 60 mph with one motor, until a universal vibration sent them to the trailer at LongBeach.
38’ Fountain Center-Console Sport Fish, “Road Runner”, with quad Mercury 300 HP Outboards, owned and captained by Norm Salem from Stamford, CT and crewed by Bob Kolenberg, Jim Troy and Dan Pickering of ThinkFast Films, broke the old Outboard Record of 5 hours and 22 minutes by completing the course in 4 hours and 15 minutes.
This boat holds the record as the fastest center-console at 87+ MPH. She is a DUAL TITLE Holder.
25’ Active Thunder with 500 HP was captained by owner Chris Philindas of RiverheadNY, and crewed by the ‘Phantom Bronx Race Team’. They ran very hard and held third place until Orient Point, where they suffered engine issues and ended up trailering down the Long Island Expressway with a few crewmembers riding in the boat…they only got pulled over once by the Police!
43’ Outerlimits with Ilmor 725 HPs, Joe Cibellis and JoeSgro from New York…what more can be said…they completed the course in RECORD TIME: 3 Hours and 5 minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awards went to Guy Lamotta for his continued support of Offshore Racing, Brian Zellner for the ‘Spirit of the NPBA”, Norm Salem, the New Outboard Record Holder for Around Long Island, and to Joe Cibellis and Joe Sgro for the new RECORD TIME AROUND LONG ISLAND.
A special ‘Shout Out’ and Thank You go to Tommy Abraham and Jimmy McIntyre for their help making this event a great success.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 22, 2012 is the date for next year’s
Around Long Island Marathon.
The Rain date will be September 23rd.
The field will thicken…the Europeans will come…don’t miss it!!!
Billy Frenz
09-28-2011, 06:08 PM
#175
Registered
Well we have races like that.. and still there's no poker runners showing up despite they having their own class for it. I have once managed to overspeak a guy with a week old 35 Fountain to participate..and he has had several powerboats before that, and we won overall easily, still he told he'd never driven that long at 10/10ths before.. all in all 56 mins.
In an endurance race anything can happen so I'd never be worried about someone's other stuff.
I was thinking some of these same things when I saw his comments. He wants gifts, he wants his ego stroked, he wants equality in the name of giving himself a better chance of winning. It is a MARATHON. He who prepare best and keeps his equipment together the whole time has just as good a chance of winning as the POTENTIALLY faster boat.
Should the NYC Marathon be broken up into classes of runners by height and leg length?
In an endurance race anything can happen so I'd never be worried about someone's other stuff.
I was thinking some of these same things when I saw his comments. He wants gifts, he wants his ego stroked, he wants equality in the name of giving himself a better chance of winning. It is a MARATHON. He who prepare best and keeps his equipment together the whole time has just as good a chance of winning as the POTENTIALLY faster boat.
Should the NYC Marathon be broken up into classes of runners by height and leg length?
Seeing as though the organizers want this event to expand, i think everyone does...including myself, lets look at an example to counter your argument:
Without getting into statistics, lets say 20 boats enter a race. Lets say 10 (37'-42') OL's with big power reaching speeds in excess of 100 mph, 5 (36'-42') skaters again with big power, 4 (35'-43) donzis with moderate power still reaching 90mph and 1 Fastech 292 with small blocks top speed of 70 mph.
Theoretically the only way to win is to be the fastest around the island without breaking, right? Taking this into account, the only way for me to win (fastech) would be to hope the entire field does not finish (breaks). Reason being, i cant reach the speeds of competitors (no way for me to catch them). Simple right...Not so much. Without crunching numbers, I would venture a guess that the chances of everyone breaking down is in the area of 3-5%. That is being generous. Its simple math. The more participants the less of a chance of winning. But this is greatly influenced by the inability to reach the speeds of fellow participants.
I dont want to downplay what Joe did last year in his Sonic because it was brilliant but he only raced against 2 other boats. As a result it increased the statistical chances of winning dramatically. My guess is that this will not be the case in the future, especially with the addition of competitors having bigger/badder boats. Hope everyone understood that.
Thats why i think there is a need for classes. Especially if these races grow in size. There is a reason why nascar has the stringent rules they do for engine size, etc. Because speed matters!!!! Put everyone on an equal playing field.
Last edited by 1MOSES1; 09-28-2011 at 07:03 PM.
09-28-2011, 06:21 PM
#176
Registered
Theoretically the only way to win is to be the fastest around the island without breaking, right? Taking this into account, the only way for me to win (fastech) would be to hope the entire field does not finish. Simple right...Not so much. Without crunching numbers, I would venture a guess that the chances of everyone breaking down is in the area of 3-5%. That is being generous. Its simple math.
.
At the last LI race 1/3rd finished so chances are good anyone could've won... usually it's the 2cent part that lets you down.
Don't ask how I know...
I Agree on the need for classes... Free for all is one and keeps the sport enjoyable.
09-28-2011, 06:27 PM
#177
Registered
Regarding their stringent rules well Nascar nowadays is a running joke. I've never seen a Toyota V8 2d sedan on the showroom floor...and Hopefully I do not have to either.
09-28-2011, 06:29 PM
#178
Registered
Theoretically you count only one variable of thousands that affects the outcome. Therefore the Theory of relativity doesn't IMO never stand in racing.
At the last LI race 1/3rd finished so chances are good anyone could've won... usually it's the 2cent part that lets you down.
Don't ask how I know...
I Agree on the need for classes... Free for all is one and keeps the sport enjoyable.
At the last LI race 1/3rd finished so chances are good anyone could've won... usually it's the 2cent part that lets you down.
Don't ask how I know...
I Agree on the need for classes... Free for all is one and keeps the sport enjoyable.
Pretty lame in my book.
09-28-2011, 06:34 PM
#179
Registered
No, it's because some legislator still thinks speed kills.... which is totally wrong, the sudden stop kills you.
Regarding their stringent rules well Nascar nowadays is a running joke. I've never seen a Toyota V8 2d sedan on the showroom floor...and Hopefully I do not have to either.
Regarding their stringent rules well Nascar nowadays is a running joke. I've never seen a Toyota V8 2d sedan on the showroom floor...and Hopefully I do not have to either.
So you think allowing one competitor to have a larger fuel tank is not an advantage? uhhh...you are wrong. This eliminates pit stops, ect...Just an example.
09-28-2011, 06:38 PM
#180
Registered
