Fountain Abandoned, Financial Mismanagement
10-14-2011, 10:42 PM
#21
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Sharkey,
that was my point concerning all the price increases. gelcoat, resin, fiberglass cloth, foam, seat vynal, etc, etc. are all based on crude oil. prices go up .10-.20 cents a pound every few months but never go down. add up all those pennies times the weight of the boat and suddenly your build cost went up thousands. that cost goes into the building of plugs and molds as well. it is even worse for production builders where the public expects you to update your line every year or so. makes it tough to amortize out $300,000 worth of molds
that was my point concerning all the price increases. gelcoat, resin, fiberglass cloth, foam, seat vynal, etc, etc. are all based on crude oil. prices go up .10-.20 cents a pound every few months but never go down. add up all those pennies times the weight of the boat and suddenly your build cost went up thousands. that cost goes into the building of plugs and molds as well. it is even worse for production builders where the public expects you to update your line every year or so. makes it tough to amortize out $300,000 worth of molds
10-15-2011, 12:43 AM
#22
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As an example, 13 years ago you could buy a good brand 22ft sport boat with a 5.7 for around 23K to 25K now they are asking near 40K and this is with a 5.0. Now you get a 18ft V6 for around 23K to 25K and you tell me this is not the reason for the decline of the industry? When would you eventually say the cost of a new boat is no longer reasonable? I would not even consider a new boat anymore and would stay with the used market like many are.
No one complained about the constant lowering of interest rates, did you, which made it possible for the public to afford the increasing prices of not only boats but housing as well. But this dangerous lowering of the rates and ballooning debt taken by the buyers which has lead to this overall decline and has caused and will continue to cause the devaluation of the dollar.
In regards to GM,
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100429975
Bailing out car companies is not new. There are so many independent businesses which survive on them.
As far as when the economy failed , Sept 2008, what happened to the "Buck Stops Here".
No one complained about the constant lowering of interest rates, did you, which made it possible for the public to afford the increasing prices of not only boats but housing as well. But this dangerous lowering of the rates and ballooning debt taken by the buyers which has lead to this overall decline and has caused and will continue to cause the devaluation of the dollar.
In regards to GM,
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100429975
Bailing out car companies is not new. There are so many independent businesses which survive on them.
As far as when the economy failed , Sept 2008, what happened to the "Buck Stops Here".
10-15-2011, 07:01 AM
#24
Some good points being brought up here but here is another angle: Does anyone on here know of a single sale (to the end consumer) of a Liberty built boat of any brand (Donzi, Fountain, Proline or Baja)? Not dealer inventory but actual owner taking delivery of their new boat?
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
10-15-2011, 07:22 AM
#25
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Don't understand something. When the current Admin bailed out the biggest company in the world at one time ,General Motors, many were complaining and crying. How many other suppliers were saved and jobs by keeping GM around? To say nothing was done????
Just though another opinion was needed.
Thanks
Just though another opinion was needed.
Thanks
What about all of the Tier suppliers, contract suppliers (non-automotive parts) and contract service vendors? They were owed millions prior to the filing. Went to Bankruptcy court and received (over a lengthy period) pennies on their owed dollars. GM and (you forgot the other biggie) Chrysler NEVER had to liquidate anything. The suppliers and vendors took it on the chin (or wallet).
Bailout my azz. This was a pullout. After they phucked countless companies. Many never recovered and closed their doors.
Here is closing chapter to this fiasco------GM and Chrysler in some cases did not even go back to those companies and continue a business relationship!!! Double screw job.
How do I know these things? Live and work in the Detroit metro area and directly linked to that industry.
10-15-2011, 07:26 AM
#26
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Don't understand something. When the current Admin bailed out the biggest company in the world at one time ,General Motors, many were complaining and crying. How many other suppliers were saved and jobs by keeping GM around? To say nothing was done????
Are they perfect? No one is.
Remember, when did the economy fail?? Was it Sept 2008 oh yeah!!
Let's not forget the mistakes of the past.
Just though another opinion was needed.
Boat prices have risen to ridiculous prices over the past 15 years to a level that just was not sustainable. It's there, boat builders, own fault. IMO
Thanks
Are they perfect? No one is.
Remember, when did the economy fail?? Was it Sept 2008 oh yeah!!
Let's not forget the mistakes of the past.
Just though another opinion was needed.
Boat prices have risen to ridiculous prices over the past 15 years to a level that just was not sustainable. It's there, boat builders, own fault. IMO
Thanks
10-15-2011, 07:46 AM
#27
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I agree with Steve to some extent, but Mariah makes sense also.
While Obama may go down in history as the guy who couldn't fix it... let's not forget who broke it.
As far as boats going from 25k to 40 k over night... That's a direct result of CHEAP financing... the same financing that caused boat builders like fountain and others to surge in popularity. When that financing evaporated, so did the market.
So, having said this, who's to blame? We ALL are. The lenders... The boat buying public who disregarded the price of a boat while focusing on the monthly payment.... The regulators who failed to keep this financing gold rush in check...
This phenomenon is not exclusive to boats... It's the same issue that affected the housing market and it's called "artificial equity"... that which makes an asset more valuable because you can barrow cheap funds to buy it.
Just my two cents..... now let's see how long it takes for Dawn to move this thread to the Political section...
T
While Obama may go down in history as the guy who couldn't fix it... let's not forget who broke it.
As far as boats going from 25k to 40 k over night... That's a direct result of CHEAP financing... the same financing that caused boat builders like fountain and others to surge in popularity. When that financing evaporated, so did the market.
So, having said this, who's to blame? We ALL are. The lenders... The boat buying public who disregarded the price of a boat while focusing on the monthly payment.... The regulators who failed to keep this financing gold rush in check...
This phenomenon is not exclusive to boats... It's the same issue that affected the housing market and it's called "artificial equity"... that which makes an asset more valuable because you can barrow cheap funds to buy it.
Just my two cents..... now let's see how long it takes for Dawn to move this thread to the Political section...
T
Last edited by MidOcean; 10-15-2011 at 08:35 AM.
10-15-2011, 07:54 AM
#29
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Some good points being brought up here but here is another angle: Does anyone on here know of a single sale (to the end consumer) of a Liberty built boat of any brand (Donzi, Fountain, Proline or Baja)? Not dealer inventory but actual owner taking delivery of their new boat?
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
I don't,and would like to know how many are in dealer hands.They are not worth a lot right now.
10-15-2011, 08:01 AM
#30
Fast Priorty II Nor-Tech
Platinum Member
Some good points being brought up here but here is another angle: Does anyone on here know of a single sale (to the end consumer) of a Liberty built boat of any brand (Donzi, Fountain, Proline or Baja)? Not dealer inventory but actual owner taking delivery of their new boat?
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
If no one knows of a 2011-12 boat then that means they didn't sell any and no matter what the true story is, if you don't sell boats you are out of business no matter who is running the business.
