Decibel level - Ticket!
 

Has anyone had any luck beating one of these?
I'm going to court in 2 weeks....Trying to get out of the $540.00 fine.
Does any one know the proper Test procedure for the SAE J2005 Decibel test?
I've heard rumor that it can only be given if the winds are less than 13 mph and nobody can be within 15 ft of the meter except the officer and the operator.

Can anyone confirm this????

Any Powerboat attorney's out there????

$540 :eek:
I see the fines fit the crime. Let's see, I think you would have to be going about 100 mph in a 55 mph zone to get that kind of ticket on the highway.:rolleyes:

In my job I set up DB readings all the time. The only way that it can accuratly be done is to put the meter in a stand, and get everyone out of the room except for me and I hide behind a seat so that I can just see the needle on the meter. If the meter is not 100% level, and no human can hold a meter 100% level the reads are wrong. You can manupulate the meter by just turning it ever so slightly at the source of sound. In the matter that you are using they will have their own proceedure and you will have to find out what the rules are and questions if the guy did that correctly to their rules. I can give you 100's of ways that the officer could have manupulated the read in his favor. To close, wrong weight (fast, slow, A, B), angle of the meter, wall anywere near your boat, having thier boat or another behind yours, Swim Platforms, wind as you said, and on and on. I can get a meter to do about anything I want it to do. You will have to get the rules for that area however and see if he did it to thier spec and try and remember if he held the meter as upright as possible.

Jon

Oh ya and if you are above the legal limit then get her below and show the judge that you have taken measures to get your boat legal and they will likely toss the ticket out.

Jon

$540 bucks??? That is absolutely absurd...

I dont know about Texas but I posted a few days back about this topic in Ohio "Question for Lake Erie Boaters" someone posted a link that showed Ohio's law on marine exhaust. The funny thing is that it doesnt say anything anywhere about the details for conducting the db test:rolleyes:

I have heard of a guy here in Ohio doing jail time for his second offense:eek:

Where did you get the ticket? How did they test? If you do a search there was a thread from someone out in West that had problem & it explained how to test correctly.

At LOTO they hand those out all the time, although 540 bucks is painfully steep...funny thing is, the water patrol has thru hull on their challengers...hmmmmm.

I agree though, usually the best thing is to make the effort to quiet it down, prove that you've done it....that should get it tossed or at least reduced?? my .02!

WM

I think second offense here in TEXAS is Capital Punishment!!!!!:confused:

It's capital punishment in Texas for ANY second offense...:D

2nd offense
 

I am not sure, but I have a customer that tells me that he got one ticket, (I dont know the cost)and the next time they talked to him they told him that if he did not fix it he would be banned for loto. Untill it was fixed.

And WM is right the wp at loto have though hull exhaust. The funniest part is that they do not clear the limit. And that comes from one of the oficers that is a friend of mine.

Cramer

The Ohio law says that you are exempt from exhaust laws if you use your boat for racing.

So buy a couple of stickers from a local race organization an slap them on your boat:D :D

But seriously I know a couple of guys here on the great lakes that use their race boats for pleasure all the time. So how could Johnny Law Man prove that you do not race your boat? or have intentions of it.

is the limit 92 db everywhere, or does it vary?

NY state is lower with 90db max @ dock and 70 db from shore. NY also has a provision that says no bypass or cut-outs are allowed. So basically anyone in New York using captain's choice,etc. are all illegal. i believe Corsa has a section on their website that has sound reg's from state-state.

ASK THEM TO STAND ON ANY STREET CORNER AND CHECK ANY HARLEY THAT GOES BY!!!....A OHIO STATE TROOPER TOLD ME THAT HES SEEN THEM THROW TICKETS OUT USING THAT COMPARISON!!! GOOD LUCK

Here is the only thing I have seen about noise Laws:

http://www.corsaperformance.com/mlaws.htm

Sounds like a raw deal!!:eek:

I am sure you will be able to fight that one!!

Just found post

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/sh...ight=camcorder

One place to start is to investigate who pulled you over. I know in NY a couple of years ago the Park Police were doing DB testing and it came out later that they weren't even qualified to operate the equipment. I hope that whatever kind of cop that wrote you up was properly trained to administer the test. Good luck!

Just wondering....... Does the Coast Guard have any jurisdiction or laws against loud exhaust?

Tried finding a copy of the J2005 standard.
SAE wants 59.00 for a copy. :mad:
I may have it in our database at work, but don't get your hopes up. If I do find it I'll post it for all to use.

Here is a link to the standard.
SAE J2005

No charge:D

Thank's for the link !
Ok, It's my understanding that the Sound Ordinance was only valid till last Fall when the TX state Legislature met and it did not get passed into a Law.(but they're still writing tickets)
So where does one look to find the expiration date of an Ordince?
I knew I shoud have gone to Law School!!!

Riverat
If you want us to help you, you will need to give us more information.
When & where did you get ticket?
What agency was it?
What were you doing when you were stoped/ticketed?
How did they decide it was too loud?
What were the comments made by officers?
What type of exhaust do you have? Boat? Motor(s)?
Did they give you other tickets at same time?

Sorry for all the questions but the information & your experence will help us all. That is what OSO is all about

State of Texas has all current & new laws on the web. I know State of Texas does NOT have noise law at this time. You can get a ticket for anything but the question is can they make it stick!

Here's the details...
On April 14, 2002 we were cruising back from having dinner about 6:30pm.
My buddy (an Austin police Officer) was driving we were doing about 35mph, He waves as we pass an oncoming LCRA(Lower Colorado River Authority) police boat. Here comes the Red and Blue lights....
The officer says they want to do a Safety Inspection, Count Lifejackets, Fire Extinguishers,Registration etc. We pass with no problems except my Throwable was left at my dock(she gave me a warning for that).
Then she pulls out the Decibel meter and takes a background reading of 54.0
She asks me to start the engine, she takes the reading and gives me a Citation for a reading of 97.5.
Other factors:
I don't know if it will matter in Court but during the Test a 50' Hustler drives by running Triples.
wind speed: 15-24 mph
Thru transom exhaust w/flaps
stock 502/465hp
Two girls sitting on the back deck(talking and laughing thru the whole ordeal).Someone said nobody could be within15' of the meter except the officer and the Operator(but I haven't found that in writing).
Thanks for your interest....

I assume Lake Travis?

Here is how I read test should be done cut to the chase. (Thanks NW_Jim) Of course even if boat did not meet SAE J2005 the State of Texas does not have a noise law.

1-Sound meter should meet certain specs.
2-Meter must have windscreen
3-No Boats, buildings, walls, embankments, breakwaters or etc. less than 25' from transom of your boat.( including the officers boat)
4-Boat MUST be either moored to a dock or lashed to another boat. If in open water your boat Must be lashed to the measurement boat to prevent relative motion & where exhause noise will not reflect off measurement boat.
5-Motor at idle in neutral with water comming out exhast
6- Microphone 4-5' above water & no closer than 3' from any vertical projection of any part of the boat in area adjacent to exhast outlet. (in line with gunnel port or starboard side)
7-Meter should be at slow response & A-weighting network ( setting on meter_
8-observer reading meter shall not be closer that arm's lenght from microphone
9-Background reading at least 10db lower
10-Peak reading of wave slaps , wave action and/or engine speed variation shall not be included in reading.
11-Observer shall record background immediately before & after.
12-Field calibration shall (Must) be performed immediately before & after each test sequence.
13-Measurement shall be invalid if change in background sound level affects the applicable reading (big load boat, people talking. I personally could see the big boat raising level but person talking might not.

One last thing, exactly what does it say on your ticket.

Excerpt from SAE J2500
(copied and pasted from pdf)

Sorry TurboJack, I was composing this as you were posting.

4. Procedure

4.1 Measurement Site—A suitable site is a body of water free of large obstructions or reflective surfaces such as
buildings, boats other than those involved in this procedure, large embankments or breakwaters, etc. for a
minimum distance of 8 m (25 ft) from the boat being measured. The boat being tested shall either be moored
to a dock or lashed to another boat. If moored to a dock, the dock shall be of open construction so that it
presents a minimum of reflecting surfaces. If the measurement is made in open water, the boat being
evaluated shall be lashed to the measurement boat to prevent relative motion and to allow positioning of the
microphone in the prescribed location. The measurement boat shall be positioned to minimize reflected
sound.

4.2 Boat Operation—The engine shall be operated at low idle speed within the engine manufacturer's
recommended operating range, in neutral gear if so equipped. For motorboats without a neutral gear, the
engine shall be operated at its lowest operational speed. The engine shall be operated for a sufficient amount
of time to allow water to flow through the exhaust system before taking measurements.

4.3 Measurements

4.3.1 The microphone shall be placed at a distance of 1.2 to 1.5 m (4 to 5 ft) above the water and no closer than
1m (3.3 ft) from the vertical projection of any part of the boat in the area adjacent to the exhaust outlet(s).

4.3.2 The meter shall be set for slow response and the A-weighting network.

4.3.3 The observer reading the meter shall not be closer than arm's length from the microphone to minimize sound
reflections.

4.3.4 The applicable reading shall be the average sound level measured during a period when the background
sound level is at least 10 dB lower than the measured sound level. Background sound level includes wind effects, noise from boats other than the one being measured, wave action, boat wakes, and other extraneous
noises.
Peak readings of intermittent sound levels created by wave slaps or changes in sound level due to
wave action and/or engine speed variation shall not be included in the applicable reading.

4.3.5 The observer shall record the applicable reading and the background sound levels taken immediately before
and immediately after the applicable reading.

5. General Requirements

5.1 The measurements shall be conducted only by persons qualified by training to perform these measurements.

5.2 Proper use of all test instrumentation is essential to obtain valid measurements. Operating manuals or other
literature furnished by the instrument manufacturer should be consulted for both recommended operation of
the instrument, and precautions to be observed.

5.3 Proper acoustical calibration shall comprise the complete measurement system including extension cables,
etc. Field calibration shall be performed immediately before and after each test sequence.

5.4 A measurement shall be invalid if changes in the background sound level affect the applicable reading.

5.5 The use of the word "shall" in the procedure is to be understood to be mandatory, while the word "should" is to
be understood as advisory.

PREPARED BY THE SAE MARINE SOUND LEVEL SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE SAE MARINE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE AND THE SAE SPECIALIZED VEHICLE AND EQUIPMENT SOUND LEVEL COMMITTEE

well thats sucks I want to put corsa on mine, loud when running and quite near docks and cottages Why would'nt they want that?

What the no bypass provision means is that the bypass must be deactivated when checking the boat-open exhaust. The reasoning is that they want the boat at it's loudest when they check it. MD does the same thing. You are allowed to have the cut outs and are encouraged to use them but you have to do the check with the exhaust open.

Thanks for the SAE link NW JIM
 

I was looking around the other day for the test information procedure when Thrillseeker asked about OHIO law. I hear of more and more testing being done by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR).
They don't even want you to be able to use Silent Choice, Captains Call, or what ever you want to call it.
Here is some text from the rules on mufflers:

No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of a powercraft on the waters in this state that is equipped with an altered muffler or muffler cutout, or operate or give permission for the operation of a powercraft on the waters in this state in any manner that bypassed or otherwise reduces or eliminates the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system installed in accordance with section, unless the applicable mechanism has been permanently disconnected or made inoperable.

No person shall remove, alter, or otherwise modify in any way a muffler or muffler system in a manner that will prevent it from being operated in accordance with this section.

No person shall manufacture, sell or offer for sale a powercraft that is not equipped with a muffler or muffler system that prevents noise levels in excess of those established in division (B) (1) of this section.

Acording to this, there are a lot of people selling boats illegal including dealers.:rolleyes:

http://www.ohiodnr.com/watercraft/laws/muffler.htm

Cordell

I am an engineer and know people in the sound business. I want to give you a hand on this case. Call 657 1104

Hey Cgarrett... Do you have any idea where somebody could find a printed copy of the SAEJ2005, and J1970 test procedures that they use here in Ohio?
It would be very usefull to know all the details.

THRILLSEEKER

1/2 of your search is over. Look further up in this thread. Nw_jim has has the SAE J2005 link & he pasted part & I hit on the important parts in my post.

Thanks for all the info. I printed several copies off this thread to carry with me, and hand along to any fellow boaters in my area that may want them. I agree that probably half of the problem, ecspecially here in MI is lack of knowledge of the test by both the officers, and the boater. For Officers in MI it is not something they practice on a year round basis. I'm quit sure based on the pour nautical tactics I have seen from several of the Ottawa county officers here in MI (Grand Haven), that they probably have not a clue of procedure. Some have trouble tying up to boats they pull over, that is no lie, I have seen it on several occasions. With the six CMI sport tubes, I'm sure I will have a go round or two this summer, so thanks again for the information. Midnight:cool:

Thrillseeker
 

I have to give credit where it is due. NW JIM posted the link to the great information on the test. I only gave the link to the OHIO ODNR. Thanks also to Turbojack for placing the information on this thread for all to read.
We are all in a winning situation when we are better informed when a "Testing" or Boarding" situation occurs.

Cordell

One of the defenses is the use of a household blender in the court room or a vacuum cleaner. these items well exceed a 100db.
Ask the judge to let you demostrate how these common household items far exceed the exhaust noise from your boat and the law that supposing to stop anoyance to the public needs to start in the home. This defense has worked.

You can buy a db meter at Radio Shack

NW_Jim

How about a copy of SAE test J34, which my state uses, and J1970 that many others use. Thanks