Hey Offshore,

I am really sorry you are so offended by my comment. I realize it was a pretty strong statement to make, but I am obviously a loyal, devoted, and very satisfied Formula customer.

Quite frankly, I see nothing positive or anything necessarily factual about Formula in your above post. All points that you posted are merely a matter of your personal opinion which you are entitled to have and to express freely. You are obviously not a Formula fan, and that's really OK.

"Formula is doing better but only because of the Cruiser side ..."

And this diversity and depth that Formula has is bad why?

"The Fastech line is just as bad as any other production boat ..."

Really?

"They are way overpriced ..."

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

"You can get way more for your money in a larger faster used boat ..."

Now I would have to agree this statement is partly correct. All three of the Formulas I have previously or currently own were used. Two were purchased from private owners, only one brokered thru a Formula dealer. Even though I have never purchased a new boat from them, Formula still is very happy to help me out with incredible customer support.

"Unfortunately the Fastech line is outdated ..."

And your 2001 [generic boat] is not?

"I bet money Formula continues not to update it ..."

Insert photos of the new Ilmor 382 and toss in one of the Ilmor 400 SS that runs over 70 mph for the heck of it.


Honestly, when you look back at your post you have to admit that you expressed some really stong negative opinions and comments about Formula directly and therefore indirectly about my Fastech, too. My comment really wasn't about your Baja per se. I really don't care what brand of boat(s) you have, how much they cost (new or used), how much we make or don't make. I was just callin you out on it, brother. Don't you have anything even remotely positive to say about Formula or Fastech ...?

If I ever make it to Traverse City, I would really enjoy a ride on whatever boat you have. If you make it out to Vegas, PM me in advance and would be more than happy to take you out on my Formula. With some good times boating and a few drinks after, maybe I could change your opinion and lessen your negativity ...:kiss:

IF I wanted to Bash formula, I could bring up the thread where the 382 hull and deck separate???

I could talk about how the cabin door was jammed on a brand new 353 sport I looked at in shipyard marine.

How all the torx screws in the carbon fiber dash were crooked on that boat and my friends formula??

I could call them JUNK overrated boats!

But I did not. I also never personally attacked anyone on here like multiple of you have.

(that was just examples!!!) In no way trying to offend.

But just showing a point.

You guys are out of control, and when people on forums assume tone, and take everything personal and out of context, it just ruins the fun for everyone.

RedDog382

Glad you are loyal:drink:

I never said the diversity was bad, but the truth. Please dont assume. That statement could have been taken positive, like I was happy for the diversity, not taken negative like I was talking bad about it.

The Fastech line really is doing bad

Formula is outdated, my boat is not currently sold, Baja updated it with a 35 outlaw. So Baja did update. (no negative tone here BTW)

Installing different engines is not "updating a boat". Its really cool and I am a big fan, but the part that formula makes is not updated. Anyone can bolt on parts that other companies update.

I was not originally trying to be negative, even though C spray first brought up how Baja, fountain, donzi, were doing worse than formula......yeah thats true, but only because "investment companies" used those boat companies just to make profit on them. Its sad, but if you research it there are "investment" companies all over the country who specialize in buying and selling businesses.....

I have nothing against formula boats, I ride on my friends all the time. I tie up with many all the time.

IF everyone would read these threads and pretend we were all tied up on a sandbar, the "TONE" would not get taken out of context. We would give each other a hard time and have fun! Maybe I would give you chit about needing a windshield over a race fairing! And you would give me crap about having the "bayliner" of powerboats, and we would all laugh!

I really wish OSO could be more like the local sandbar......

Thats how I use it, and if I said exactly what I wrote no one would be mad, we would just conversate and enjoy the sun!

And so is the economy, but that's really not Formula's fault.

Hey! Don't be bashing Baja's now Chris! :eek::D

The fairing from my Poker Run Special is stored in my building and not for sale in the event I want to put it back on the boat as it came from the factory. So feel free to give me crap about it ... you would not be the first!

So are we cool now ...?:drink:

:kiss:

Hey Al, weren't you looking at Formulas recently ...? And you got married and changed your phone number without calling me. Dude, are you OK? ;)

Yes, and despite them being over priced and out of date, I'd still love to have a 382 Fastech (or Dan's 400SS)! :D

After all the nice stuff I wrote you come back with this?

What tone should I take that in?

I thought we were good! :drink:

Obviously the economy is bad.

But there are ways to overcome it. Shogren is. They had a record year. :coolcowboy:

Plus many other boat manufactures are selling more boats then Fastech line. So how else can I tell the truth about the fastech line without someone arguing it????? :evilb

:lolhit:

:drink::drink::drink::drink::drink:

PM sent

Yes, it's meant to be humorous. And Shogren is selling outdated Formulas, too! :)

ok

well I guess time will tell on how the fastech line will do. I hope the powerboat market recovers and grows! Its boring taking out my Baja and there is no one to run with, so I have to go back and take the cruiser out instead! :lolhit:

Good news for the production powerboat market is Checkmate has a new 40+ for the miami boat show. So at least someone is coming out with a new production powerboat! :drink:

I hope Baja, Donzi, Formula, and Fountain do also. But only time will tell. :drink:

Almost forgot, Sunsation did just come out with the new 36.

OE - You are right about the tone thing. Words on message boards must be chosen very carefully since facial expressions and body language don't come into play here. If your comments have not been taken as intended, be patient and choose your words carefully.

I've based my comments on NEW boats, and don't see this thread as a "new versus used" thread; that conversation can take place elsewhere. I already explained my reasons for buying my 2000 382 new, but often buy used cars and boats as well when my needs are not as specific.

Getting back to the original thread, and restricting the conversation strictly to NEW boats, here is my input:

1. For whatever reasons, one cannot buy new Fountains, Bajas, Donzis, Powerplays, Powerquests or a number of other brands, so they cannot be part of this conversation.
2. Outerlimits, Cigarette, and Nor-Tech are custom builders, so comparing them to Formula also doesn't work.
3. Those points being made, what production builders remain to compare Formula to? Maybe Sunsation (I did this earlier), Sonic for sure, and a couple of west coast builders. If we could get production numbers and pricing details on similarly-equipped models, it would help make a valid comparison to the 353 in question.
4. When I bought my 382, it's list price was $288k, and I paid $224k. At the time, I was very pleased to get 22% off.
5. The discount on the 353 in question looks to be roughly 34%. If I was offered 34% off of just about anything new (other than jewelry), I'd be pretty happy.
6. Updates to the Fastech lines have been pretty extensive if you look carefully. However, the hull, deck and windshield remain as they have since 2000. Granted, those are the most highly-visible items, but I personally don't see anything wrong with them (opinion). These are also the most expensive item to change.
7. A model 2000 382 did win the OPA P4 championship in 2011, so the bottom can't be too shabby.
8. When comparing other boats to the 353, bear in mind the less-obvious features (regardless of whether or not you would select them) that add value: The quality of the basic components (resin, cloth, gel, vinyl, ABYC wiring, plumbing, etc.); the quality of the components (battery chargers, toilets, gauges, controls, lights, steering systems); add-on items (stainless steel windshield frame, touchscreen chartplotters, full-coverage paint, LED docking lights); and, most importantly - customer service.

So, eliminating used boats, what is there to compare this 353 to, other than the $360k Sunsation?

Fair enough? :kiss:

Somewhere in the beginning of this thread someone said the msrp on this 353 fastech was around 400k. That's about the same as a 38 top gun with 525's. But we can't compare them because one is custom and the other production. But then again you complain when someone says a formula is not as good as a custom builder. You can't have it both ways. If formula didn't have any competition they would be selling a lot more boats don't you think.

The "Price is Right" is the only place MSRP is worthy :drink:

Too many times manufactures will update a model and muck it up. I cannot count how many times I've had the conversation with boating buddies about past models of boats from various manufactures that we wish were still being produced today because those models were classic and timeless. IMO, the Fas-Tech line fits that bill. No need to add bustles, wings, flaps, bulbous bulges on the deck, indented hull sides, additional hull steps, hull vents, etc. so that you can call it a "new model". Improvements in layup, rigging, power, paint, interior materials, etc. can do enough year to year to keep a model "fresh" for a production boat that even in the best of economic conditions will not move a ton of units.

Public service announcement ladies and gentleman!!! It's officially winter on OSO so let the bickering begin!

To keep with the thread, it seems like 270K is a lot for a 35ft'r under 100mph. Formula is MY personal favorite for fit and finish and something 30ft or better will be my next boat, but for a large chunk of OSO people, that kind of coin is hard to rationalize with the used boat market being so reasonably priced. Somewhere near the beginning of the post was talks about offering 225-250, why not? There is NO argument on this thread (which I read in its entirety) that formula fit and finish is indeed top notch and the boats not only last but keep the owners comfortable for a decade at least. Guy's we aren't buying Honda Accords and long haul trucks! We're buying toys and trying to put a value on it...:angry-smiley-038:

offshore, I'm cracking up at your post. Thanks for the laughs :lolhit:

Wow! you Formula guys should try owning a Fountain.....

LMAO!

I would think about it if I could get a new one. :drink: (Just kidding - I personally hope that Fountain, Baja and Donzi re-emerge on the market.)

jbraun2828 and Powerplay J: I agree with your points, but what other information do we have to work with? If someone can buy a brand-new 35 Cig (or OL or NT) with 525s for $270k, I'll take my hat off to them. Street pricing is what counts.

I understand the new-vs-used point as well, but in the case of this 353, we're talking new. If there are better new values out there, let's see them!

+1

I haven't convinced the wife that she wants a new boat yet but I'm still looking :drink:

If I made one person smile for the day then I am happy! :drink:

http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Ch...0-Zt/118105701

Good new boat to compare against.

Loaded with lots of options

Checkmate has a well known build quality also

Even the ad says there are discounts, obviously price would increase with 525's, but you have to factor in the same discounts etc.

How do we even know the OP is telling the truth on the price of that 353?

Whats to stop someone else from coming on this thread and making up a low price on some other new boat??

They "negotiated" prices are kept secret as a sales tool to make the buyer "feel" like they are getting a deal of a lifetime.

Please don't bash this post, or Checkmate. This is a honest comparasion showing that there are other good deals on good boats. Not saying this boat is better or worse than the 353. Both are sweet boats and any of us on here would love to own either, just might not enjoy paying for them!
:drink::drink::drink:
:party-smiley-004:

I suppose I ought to stay out of it, and God bless Shogren for figuring a way around a crappy economy, but it isn't new boat sales that are doing it for him. As quoted from Jason Johnson's interview of him today at www.speedonthewater.com:

"We are having a great year — in fact, we are having a record year. That’s the good news. The not-so-good news is the majority of our sales are coming from used, not new boats and we see this trend continuing in performance boating for years to come. Although there is a buyer for every seller, the buyers are buying for a fraction of what a new boat costs, which is holding back new boat sales."

Just sayin'...

Why would I come on here on my phone, while I'm at the boat show for some quick feedback and give false prices...

That checkmate's pretty impressive though, very nice looking and Checkmate makes a good boat. My brother-in-law still has his '86 21' which he runs pretty hard.

Don't get an over inflated opinion now based one post. I would imagine many OSO users see you as just a troublemaker on most every thread you participate on and add little value to each thread.

I like Chevy, you like Toyota, he likes Acura, she likes Audi, he likes volvo, she likes Saab....blah blah blah

The most common thing I've noticed, majority of people people think what they own is the best. Especially with type A performance boaters. :drink:

At the end of the day Formula is one of the great performance boats on the market.












It's still not an Apache, but it's pretty close! :lolhit::evilb:

Poor taste at best.

Bragging about material things you own is immature and makes you look like an asshat, especially on a website composed almost entirely of the "1%".

Formulas and 'Paches are a long way apart. That's why I bought a Formula; they have drinkholders. :kiss:

Your correct, and thats why I brought it up. Most of us on here agree that a used boat would be a better deal then that 353 new. But some feel that we should only compare new to new, which I understand, but its just to hard to get solid pricing.

:drink:

I have no clue but have you seen what some people do on here!!?? :lolhit:

Its all good though. Glad you liked the checkmate. So are you still in the market for a new boat? Are you shopping the used market? Tell us more.

Thanks

http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Ch...0-Zt/118105701

Good new boat to compare against.

ur kidding right?
I mean reaally???

I'm not saying they aren't a well-built boat, haven't been near one but when you include ALL factors of the Formula ownership experience from buying to the day she's sold...
as it has been for oh...25 years or more in larger performance boats

I think you're giving the boat a huge amount of
"benefit of the doubt"
and talk about DATED for the man's sake!
that thing looks like a mid 90's Baja resurection!!!!

and there is nothing "timeless" line-wise about that!! :picard1:
(apparently there's no pukey smiley)

the new builder better have done some mold work and moved the finish quality light years ahead from the last

those were the reasons I didn't buy one when my own dealer was carrying and stocking...

musta been 5 gals of white silicone squirted in evry one I saw filling gaps and ill fitting pieces everywhere including all over in the cabin. I thought that was disgusting...

flaws in the molded non-skid everywhere. Yea, it's bitccc to pull clean, so if you can't go smooth...

could go on!
I was looking at buying one and far from my first! I looked them over good and NO WAY, Solid boat but I personally just couldn't live with what I found at that $ level

Yo Bimini Run if u plan on making a Bimini Run in a "performance boat" I'd recommend a brand with a windshield that can handle big water.

Must have been a bad rigging, fit/finish job. Have never experienced that in any that I have owned or others I have been on & seen. Depending on what year and model, new or used, could play a big part in what you may have saw or seen, especially if it was used, and how it was taken care of, and patched up.

Your welcome to check out my 45 any time & I gurantee you wont see any of what you mentioned you saw.

I have seen similar examples of other manufacturers boats, even at boat shows with new boats and was amazed they would bring something like that to a show. Then I saw others of the same models that were of the same year or different that didnt exhibit what I saw, then I have seen the same across the board from some manufacturers.

Sometimes looking at one, you cant judge an entire brand from one experience, but if looking at several and see the same, then you can more acurately call it.

Bottom line Johnny sumed it up pretty darn well.......

I thought all the Apache owners had super hot chicks to hold their drinks for them!:drink: