1MOSES1

It's also over a decade older. That's like comparing a 2001 Maserati to a brand new 2011 M3. Apples and oranges.

offshorexcursion

iTrader: (5)

Honestly, IN todays economy, would any of the formula owners on this thread buy that 353 from the boat show for $260,000? There is no formula financing like there used to be either! Not saying your choice to buy your formula years ago was bad. But would you really buy this new one or shop for a better "bang for your buck"?

The price is already reduced more than fair. Comparing price to other new brands is hard but I am sure they will have great discounts also. Comparing new vs new can only be done fair using MSRP. We can however compare the boat show formula to a used boats price (even though the used boat has room to negotiate also).

Used wins everytime. There is nothing this formula offers that a used boat does not. Not even a wrnty. The parts can be bought with what you save, plus you have more boat for your money.

Please don't take it personal, but the facts are the facts. The Formula Fas Tech line is dieing FAST! They have not been changed in 14 years! I highly doubt a smart investment is to drop $260,000 on a 14 yr old design!


This one is my personal favorite, no one can argue that its not a lot of boat for the money!

http://www.boatcrazy.com/search/deta...t=&link=&text=

1MOSES1

Not sure why people are still comparing used boat vs new boat prices. Its obvious that the consumer can get a lot more boat buying used rather than new. Do i think 260k is a little steep for the 353...Yes. But when you compare that price to other competitors (new vs new), I think you will find formulas come in well under competitor pricing...i.e. fastech 353 = 260k and donzi 35zr = 350k at a minimum. This of course is a comparison of what a consumer can expect to buy a boat for not msrp. No one pays msrp.

i dont think anyone is debating that point.

Hahaha the fastech line is not dieing fast. Dont be so naive. I would be willing to bet that Formula produces more Fast Techs in one year than many other performance companies do.

Fact is the majority of the boating world hasnt updated there design in 8-10 years. With the exception of OL and Cig, many companies opt for face lift changes...i.e. new cockpits, graphic updates, varied dash designs, etc.

Why? Because completely re-designing a boat is expensive. It doesnt make much financial sense in bad economy unless you can recoup investments. I am guessing ROI on a new hull is not there.

Hopefully this comparison works: Take the BMW 6 series. It wasnt re-designed for 8 years. Typical cars have a 4-5 year design cycle. Did 6 series sales fall near the end of the 8 years, i am sure they did. BMW just released a re-designed new 6 series this past year. Do you honestly think they are selling that much better with a new design? Doubtful. And do you think that when a consumer went in to BMW 2 years ago that they thought to themselves, "why am i buying a 8 yr old design?" my guess is no.

jbraun2828

Pretty sure skater doesnt build the same boat every time. Nortech comes out with something new it seems every year. Sunsation just came out with a new 36. Cig and Ol are always stepping it up. These are the company's that are doing well in a crap economy. Formula has done nothing.

1MOSES1

I agree Formula has done nothing over the years, however many others have followed suit. I think "one" has to define the term redesign. Everyone in the boating industry has done some form of a refresh i.e. cockpit changes, cabin design, graphic packages, features, etc.

I personally constitute a redesign as a new boat from the hull up. Meaning completly new plug, new materials, new schedules, new lay up, new post processing, new look, etc. Tons of R&D.

I dont think a redesign is a boat that has been retro fitted using the same plug with new materials or an old plug with a slight modification. To me thats just a refresh. Much like cars use the same chasis and merely add new headlights, new body kits, and tail lights. In many instances boat companies take an old plug cut a foot or two out of the cockpit and call it a new model. If thats a redesign and pushing the limit then tons of them do it. I like to call that the cookie cutter approach.

Jupiter Sunsation

1. New vs. Used is valid when the product line is identical. What is the difference between a new Fastech and a 2004 model.......about 200K and rest of the boat comparison is identical!
2. The Fastech line is dying! Matt Truilio reports they are building their 3rd 382 this year and others have mentioned that Formula doesn't even bring the Fastech line to the local boat shows since there is no demand/no dealer is stocking them.
3. ALL OF THE BOAT BUILDERS HAVE UPDATED THEIR PRODUCT LINE IN THE LAST 5 YEARS! Cig/NT/OL/Sunsation have introduced brand new boats. NT/OL has also phased out their older line (probably 5-6 boats they used to make are out of the line up, replaced by new, better models). Even Fountain re-did their cabins in 2008!
4. Formula doesn't necessarily need to scrap the whole line up but rather tweak what they have (and this means more than a new steering wheel option).
5. BMW 650's had a 10K rebate at the end of their model run, to say that car wasn't selling is a huge understatement! Cars are different, they get used more, traded more frequently so to drive an old model is not a big deal since 3 years later you probably won't have it anymore! Cars are a necessity for 90% of Americans, boats are not a necessity for anyone and they cost more than some people's homes (another necessity).

Formula knows they need to do something, boats like the Ilmor 382/400 SS and the FX4/5 are definitely bright spots in their future but the Fastech line is at a fork in the road. Dump some money in it/revitalize or let it die is the decision they have to make. Another thing that is working against them is their boats have a classic look and they are well built. It is hard for even diehard boat guys to tell the difference between an older model and a new one so why buy new especially if the old one will perform just as good as a new one?

Jupiter Sunsation

Hey a houseboat is a lot of boat for the money too! That BT is terrible............

Jupiter Sunsation

A 2001 Maserati wasn't even good in 2001!

boatnt

iTrader: (1)

jumping from a 21 Baja to a 353 Formula..Wow...

Jupiter Sunsation

They need to get new buyers at the dealers ordering new boats so do whatever it takes! Not sure how big of a role that guy Vic had (he left and went to work at Cig) and if his departure hurt Formula's production.

The new models from OL/NT/Sunsation were completely new hulls. OL/NT create a new boat almost annually and if they can do it so can Formula especially since they have a volume that OL/NT don't.