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Saltwater Drowning Named Cause of Death for Morgan and Tillman

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lotopa.com View Post
The force of the water passing through the cockpit was enough to blow out the side of the hull and deck. This was after passing by them from behind, all of the air safety systems in the world would not have helped in this accident. The time for the rescue diver to hit the water was about 42 seconds ( this is from onboard video that I have seen) again based on the violent nature that the water entered the cockpit, no rescue diver could have done anymore than the diver that was deployed, they could have had medical personel on board and the only different outcome would have been two more names on the cause of death report...

I f this is difficult to understand try to remember this scenerio as a kid, learning to ski or tubing, when you wipe out you take some water in the nose and mouth, and sometimes lose a swimsuit, now that is at 36 mph ( competition slalom speed, and most of us didnt ski that fast) they entered backwards at 140mph, is the picture getting clearer? If not go over to your kitchen sink and take the spray nozzel and shoot it at point blank range up your nose, now multiply that by about 100 times the psi and volume and do the same for every other open orifice on your body.
After watching this over and over I would have to agree this was the most likely cause of death. As mentioned, just hitting the water at say 20-30 mph is enough to cause tremendous damage from water pressure coming in through orifices... the cockpit being inundated by a solid wall of water at 100+ mph is a no win situation. If it did that much damage to that stout cockpit, imagine the forces generated on a fragile (in comparison) human body...

RIP guys!
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:34 AM
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There was a ton of speculation and then the on-going lawsuit in the other thread, it is nice to know that more than likely these guys were unconscious immediately so went out with minimal pain. Prayers to the family left behind and I hope the legal impact on the spot is nominal.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:21 AM
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I could understand people getting in the way of the Pro's to save them, but if the non-pro's got there first, they could do whatever until the medics arrive...at least thats what we did back in the day. When someone crashed, almost everyone tried to help. then when the ambulance crew got there, everyone got out of the way. We saved many of our fellow racers lives by doing this. The first boat by didnt move over or slow down.
I agree its nice when people stop but in a race you are moving so fast and are fixed on what you are doing everything else is an after thought.

Sometimes people that are not rescue professionals can do more harm then good and turn into gaukers or just get in the way. Some times as by stander its best to get out of the way make a phone call or point out the crash.(im talking all accidents. With that said RIP guys,
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:55 AM
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in regard to an earlier question, i believe the boat was a 2000 or a 2001 and there was no bottom escape hatch.
I covered offshore in the late 1990s for Powerboat and that boat was competing at that time time as Nuff Respect with Bobby Moore on the throttles.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:01 AM
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Mr Alweiss' APBA, LLC is the first of the groups to have changed this rule and the rest followed. I guess with his knowledge both of offshore and the legal end, he had his reasons for instituting the way the ruling is today.
Respectfully, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. The LLC not only maintained the mandatory render assistance rule for competitors, they also instituted the full course yellow for the first time in the sport's history. The latter made the racing safer by ensuring that all available safety assets were focused on the accident, and that there would be no other accidents during an ongoing rescue.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:14 PM
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I covered offshore in the late 1990s for Powerboat and that boat was competing at that time time as Nuff Respect with Bobby Moore on the throttles.
That was a 46' with twin canopies. Now for sale as the recycler.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:51 PM
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Very sad for all. Just a plain out tragedy.
With no disrespect I have to say crap happens. We all watch crashes and think how did they come out of that as they waved to the crowd. This is one of the times sadly that the people inside suffered the same devastation as the vehicle they were in. Rescue was efficient and I can only hope that if I find myself in the same position that someone is there within 45 seconds.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CigDaze View Post
Respectfully, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. The LLC not only maintained the mandatory render assistance rule for competitors, they also instituted the full course yellow for the first time in the sport's history. The latter made the racing safer by ensuring that all available safety assets were focused on the accident, and that there would be no other accidents during an ongoing rescue.
Come on Cig, please dont play puppet or allow someone else to log in under your name.... Seeing that your located in St Pete I am sure you were at the 2003 Nationals and witnessed that race. In race 1 on Saturday Flashwave(F1) had an ejection on the outside of the course and we had to "keep racing and proceed with caution" around the incident. I was in the boat that was first on scene and kept going as we were instructed in the drivers meeting to "not render assistance, the medical crew will be there in a timely manner" The boat I was racing in was not penalized in any shape or form for following the rules stated in the drivers meeting. On Sunday, you had Steve Schuble's(AKA OSO cigarette) cigarette hit while towing another boat off the course. I wont go further into that fiasco or what resulted from it.....

Now I will add that it might have stayed on the "books" as a rule, but just as in any rulebook for any association, it also states,(and I say this very loosely) This rulebook is essentially useless as the President of said organization can over rule anything at anytime when he deems necessary.

Now this is my opinion In this sue happy society we live in, why should I stop and render assistance when lets say I dive in and pull the injured racer from the boat and do further damage to the racer, by not being able to properly stabilize the victim, etc, knowing I can be possibly sued as a result? Knowing that I am not trained whatsoever to do a rescue of any sort. We are "advised" in the dunkers/swim tests on what to be able to do for ourselves and our partners, but not even trained by any association including the former LLC to do basic CPR.

You say that it was instituted a full course yellow, what does that accomplish? Shouldnt you just throw a red flag and bring the boats into a mill away from the scene to ensure that not even a wake under yellow, hinders in the rescue of the accident victims?

Regardless of the past, the LLC failed, for whatever reason.... With the "Cardshark" thread closed now, PSlonaker is bored and figured he would come over here and invest his 2 cents, making new friends.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by F1-00 Racing View Post
Come on Cig, please dont play puppet or allow someone else to log in under your name.... Seeing that your located in St Pete I am sure you were at the 2003 Nationals and witnessed that race. In race 1 on Saturday Flashwave(F1) had an ejection on the outside of the course and we had to "keep racing and proceed with caution" around the incident. I was in the boat that was first on scene and kept going as we were instructed in the drivers meeting to "not render assistance, the medical crew will be there in a timely manner" The boat I was racing in was not penalized in any shape or form for following the rules stated in the drivers meeting. On Sunday, you had Steve Schuble's(AKA OSO cigarette) cigarette hit while towing another boat off the course. I wont go further into that fiasco or what resulted from it.....

Now I will add that it might have stayed on the "books" as a rule, but just as in any rulebook for any association, it also states,(and I say this very loosely) This rulebook is essentially useless as the President of said organization can over rule anything at anytime when he deems necessary.

Now this is my opinion In this sue happy society we live in, why should I stop and render assistance when lets say I dive in and pull the injured racer from the boat and do further damage to the racer, by not being able to properly stabilize the victim, etc, knowing I can be possibly sued as a result? Knowing that I am not trained whatsoever to do a rescue of any sort. We are "advised" in the dunkers/swim tests on what to be able to do for ourselves and our partners, but not even trained by any association including the former LLC to do basic CPR.

You say that it was instituted a full course yellow, what does that accomplish? Shouldnt you just throw a red flag and bring the boats into a mill away from the scene to ensure that not even a wake under yellow, hinders in the rescue of the accident victims?

Regardless of the past, the LLC failed, for whatever reason.... With the "Cardshark" thread closed now, PSlonaker is bored and figured he would come over here and invest his 2 cents, making new friends.
Its sad in today society when you have to worry about the person you saved or tried to save will turn around and sue you or the family will try. And this is why on all road accidents I stop and ask if they have a phone or just call 911. It sucks but is worth risking my livelyhood, home, and money? Not saying I agree with it. But in a race setting unless called upon I think letting rescue crews get to them first is the best bet, as you or I might just get in the way. From what it sound it doesnt matter who or what helped.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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You aren't legally responsible if you try to help someone and make a mistake in theory...that's the problem, it makes you think about it.

Good.
Samaritan.
Law.

And I don't know if that law is in effect in Florida or not...

EDIT: http://www.floridamalpractice.com/stat768.13.htm

Either way this is sad that drowning was the cause, prayers go out to the families.

Last edited by brivander; 01-19-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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