DCB M41 Widebody Cat to be Offered With or Without Center Pod
02-08-2012, 01:37 PM
#21
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Historically speaking, a true tunnel will have some speed the boat "hops / porpoises" at. They generally gotta power through it, or stay below it for a comfortable ride. There are mfg's that claim (read that as all of them) that there is zero porpoise at any speed. For the most part, let me set you straight.. they are full of ****.
Center Pod boats are generally don't hop at most speeds. There is little to no hop.. (this doesn't mean their aren't center pod boats out there that do it, just saying generally speaking). 2nd benefit to the pod is slower speed handling characteristics.. If it's a good pod boat, the boat is very docile at almost any speed. True Tunnels are not.. and are less forgiving
Downsides to the pod is Big Water. What we consider "Big" at Lake Havasu or other inland water ways isn't remotely close to some of the big water east coasters run in. The tunnels are shallow and fill up fast. True Cats have deeper tunnels then center pod boats, and the depth of the tunnel becomes crucial.
To talk tunnel depth for a second, It isn't 6 inches of tunnel = 6 inches of chop.. The depth of tunnel vs how big of water is almost exponential. Every inch counts, and inches can add up to feet of chop that a boat can soak up. This is going to get into a very long conversation about tunnel compression (lifting the boat out of the water), aerodynamic vs hydrodynamic lift and a whole bunch of stuff I'm certainly not qualified to talk about.. LOL
Pod Boats = docile, little to no porpouse
True Tunnel = Big Water (claimed faster, but let me save you the suspense it's BS, HP to HP they run the same if anything certain Pods run better)
Pod guys will argue theirs turn better. I'm inclined to believe (after taking Tres's course and talking to him about it, and not just taking his word for it, but understanding the theory behind it) that True Tunnels will probably turn harder if you know how to drive them. I've driven plenty of Pod boats, but am almost embarrassed to admit, no experience driving in a true tunnel.
One BIG upside to a pod is you can run a single stern drive..
Finally the thing that is so dumb about the whole argument.. Most center pod boats from the west coast actually get their Heritage from what's called a 25 Talon. Now made from an East Coat mfg Hustler. If it's 28' and below you can bet and be right 90% of the time it's a direct Talon splash or what is called a "derivative." (direct Talon splash.. LOL) Even a lot of the scaled up (28+) Center Pod boats you can see remarkable similarities to the Talon design.
I've said about as much as I can say on the bottle, or throttle depending on how ya look at it, without getting myself in trouble. LOL
Sorry for the scattered post, I've been drinking in the garage tonight while working on a buddies Rhino. .
RD
Center Pod boats are generally don't hop at most speeds. There is little to no hop.. (this doesn't mean their aren't center pod boats out there that do it, just saying generally speaking). 2nd benefit to the pod is slower speed handling characteristics.. If it's a good pod boat, the boat is very docile at almost any speed. True Tunnels are not.. and are less forgiving
Downsides to the pod is Big Water. What we consider "Big" at Lake Havasu or other inland water ways isn't remotely close to some of the big water east coasters run in. The tunnels are shallow and fill up fast. True Cats have deeper tunnels then center pod boats, and the depth of the tunnel becomes crucial.
To talk tunnel depth for a second, It isn't 6 inches of tunnel = 6 inches of chop.. The depth of tunnel vs how big of water is almost exponential. Every inch counts, and inches can add up to feet of chop that a boat can soak up. This is going to get into a very long conversation about tunnel compression (lifting the boat out of the water), aerodynamic vs hydrodynamic lift and a whole bunch of stuff I'm certainly not qualified to talk about.. LOL
Pod Boats = docile, little to no porpouse
True Tunnel = Big Water (claimed faster, but let me save you the suspense it's BS, HP to HP they run the same if anything certain Pods run better)
Pod guys will argue theirs turn better. I'm inclined to believe (after taking Tres's course and talking to him about it, and not just taking his word for it, but understanding the theory behind it) that True Tunnels will probably turn harder if you know how to drive them. I've driven plenty of Pod boats, but am almost embarrassed to admit, no experience driving in a true tunnel.
One BIG upside to a pod is you can run a single stern drive..
Finally the thing that is so dumb about the whole argument.. Most center pod boats from the west coast actually get their Heritage from what's called a 25 Talon. Now made from an East Coat mfg Hustler. If it's 28' and below you can bet and be right 90% of the time it's a direct Talon splash or what is called a "derivative." (direct Talon splash.. LOL) Even a lot of the scaled up (28+) Center Pod boats you can see remarkable similarities to the Talon design.
I've said about as much as I can say on the bottle, or throttle depending on how ya look at it, without getting myself in trouble. LOL
Sorry for the scattered post, I've been drinking in the garage tonight while working on a buddies Rhino. .
RD
02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
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I have owned a DCB and Skater. The DCB looks pretty, but when you look at how differently they are put together. Skater is stronger, lighter and faster. I started with DCB and then bought my Skater. I have owned my Skater for ten years and I have over 800 hours on it. I wouldn't buy another DCB. Just wondering if any Skater owners would switch to DCB?
02-08-2012, 03:14 PM
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I have owned a DCB and Skater. The DCB looks pretty, but when you look at how differently they are put together. Skater is stronger, lighter and faster. I started with DCB and then bought my Skater. I have owned my Skater for ten years and I have over 800 hours on it. I wouldn't buy another DCB. Just wondering if any Skater owners would switch to DCB?
And for the record, I have never owned either 1, but I did own a Eliminator Daytona 24 tunnel with a pod, w/ 2x 2.5 EFI Offshores, and it COULD beat you up in bigger water. At the same time I have been in many Mystic C5000's, and the ride has always been smooth/docile......
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02-08-2012, 03:46 PM
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I have owned a DCB and Skater. The DCB looks pretty, but when you look at how differently they are put together. Skater is stronger, lighter and faster. I started with DCB and then bought my Skater. I have owned my Skater for ten years and I have over 800 hours on it. I wouldn't buy another DCB. Just wondering if any Skater owners would switch to DCB?
Wait...he can't over here. Carry on.
02-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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Rocky's pic with the vette was epic.. LOL I can't have that **** on my board though.
RD
02-08-2012, 04:07 PM
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02-08-2012, 04:38 PM
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I had that picture sent to me a year ago or so. Pure comedy!
The ole Hot Boat Dave would have been all over the truth!
Sadly, he went from "the man won't keep me down!"...
...to "I am the now man! F-you!"
The ole Hot Boat Dave would have been all over the truth!
Sadly, he went from "the man won't keep me down!"...
...to "I am the now man! F-you!"
Last edited by Havasu Hangin; 02-08-2012 at 05:46 PM.
02-08-2012, 10:03 PM
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02-08-2012, 11:06 PM
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Wrinkleface Now for cats which were the Second boat invented by man, when he could not stand on a his single log, so he tied two together, Look at the OSO advertisement up in the header on your right, you will see a cat “without” a pod or obstruction in it’s tunnel.
Now on a cat we have these two “fine” should we say hulls (sponsons) which are a big part of this boats efficiency,
You see we pay a horrible price for every Single square inch of wetted surface; the trick here is to keep this to a bare minimum,
Now just sticking some structure in there is going to cause drag in both the wetted and air resistance sides, No Magic here a price will be paid! For the wetted Side one would need to look at its angle of attack and the dihedral, Air flow we look at the gross cross-section, and then factor in shape, but that all goes out the window when you try to drive that Pig hanging down through water at high speed. The pressures = Resistance is amazing!
I have done testing on my outboard cats, the triples we needed a deflector system to protect the center outboards midsection (which is not made to run IN the water) I tested the boat using two engines Both before and after I glassed it on, made a - 6 MPH difference and the military boats loaded were only running @70 MPH in the Hot Air and Water over there.
Yes Years and Years back I read Talons advertisement where they claimed the water and Air being forced around their “Pod” actually increased the boats speed!!! Must be a “Magic Pod” anyway we got a good laugh out of it.
I have spent a lot of time on tunnel design on my outboard cats where I had to use everything but the dust in the air, you keep it simple, no complex shapes, the boats projected mass is what you start with here.
Now on a cat we have these two “fine” should we say hulls (sponsons) which are a big part of this boats efficiency,
You see we pay a horrible price for every Single square inch of wetted surface; the trick here is to keep this to a bare minimum,
Now just sticking some structure in there is going to cause drag in both the wetted and air resistance sides, No Magic here a price will be paid! For the wetted Side one would need to look at its angle of attack and the dihedral, Air flow we look at the gross cross-section, and then factor in shape, but that all goes out the window when you try to drive that Pig hanging down through water at high speed. The pressures = Resistance is amazing!
I have done testing on my outboard cats, the triples we needed a deflector system to protect the center outboards midsection (which is not made to run IN the water) I tested the boat using two engines Both before and after I glassed it on, made a - 6 MPH difference and the military boats loaded were only running @70 MPH in the Hot Air and Water over there.
Yes Years and Years back I read Talons advertisement where they claimed the water and Air being forced around their “Pod” actually increased the boats speed!!! Must be a “Magic Pod” anyway we got a good laugh out of it.
I have spent a lot of time on tunnel design on my outboard cats where I had to use everything but the dust in the air, you keep it simple, no complex shapes, the boats projected mass is what you start with here.
02-08-2012, 11:38 PM
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Wrinkleface Now for cats which were the Second boat invented by man, when he could not stand on a his single log, so he tied two together, Look at the OSO advertisement up in the header on your right, you will see a cat “without” a pod or obstruction in it’s tunnel.
Now on a cat we have these two “fine” should we say hulls (sponsons) which are a big part of this boats efficiency,
You see we pay a horrible price for every Single square inch of wetted surface; the trick here is to keep this to a bare minimum,
Now just sticking some structure in there is going to cause drag in both the wetted and air resistance sides, No Magic here a price will be paid! For the wetted Side one would need to look at its angle of attack and the dihedral, Air flow we look at the gross cross-section, and then factor in shape, but that all goes out the window when you try to drive that Pig hanging down through water at high speed. The pressures = Resistance is amazing!
I have done testing on my outboard cats, the triples we needed a deflector system to protect the center outboards midsection (which is not made to run IN the water) I tested the boat using two engines Both before and after I glassed it on, made a - 6 MPH difference and the military boats loaded were only running @70 MPH in the Hot Air and Water over there.
Yes Years and Years back I read Talons advertisement where they claimed the water and Air being forced around their “Pod” actually increased the boats speed!!! Must be a “Magic Pod” anyway we got a good laugh out of it.
I have spent a lot of time on tunnel design on my outboard cats where I had to use everything but the dust in the air, you keep it simple, no complex shapes, the boats projected mass is what you start with here.
Now on a cat we have these two “fine” should we say hulls (sponsons) which are a big part of this boats efficiency,
You see we pay a horrible price for every Single square inch of wetted surface; the trick here is to keep this to a bare minimum,
Now just sticking some structure in there is going to cause drag in both the wetted and air resistance sides, No Magic here a price will be paid! For the wetted Side one would need to look at its angle of attack and the dihedral, Air flow we look at the gross cross-section, and then factor in shape, but that all goes out the window when you try to drive that Pig hanging down through water at high speed. The pressures = Resistance is amazing!
I have done testing on my outboard cats, the triples we needed a deflector system to protect the center outboards midsection (which is not made to run IN the water) I tested the boat using two engines Both before and after I glassed it on, made a - 6 MPH difference and the military boats loaded were only running @70 MPH in the Hot Air and Water over there.
Yes Years and Years back I read Talons advertisement where they claimed the water and Air being forced around their “Pod” actually increased the boats speed!!! Must be a “Magic Pod” anyway we got a good laugh out of it.
I have spent a lot of time on tunnel design on my outboard cats where I had to use everything but the dust in the air, you keep it simple, no complex shapes, the boats projected mass is what you start with here.
I.E. the "Tunnel Tab" would be a great argument here.. Most people think a Tunnel Tab is to help a boat get on plane or reduce porpouse. It's not, and can actually be a ridiculously dangerous if you're driving around with it down and water fills the tunnel and hits it.
In a true tunnel application, what the tab is actually for,(when racing) if the water is smooth enough they can drop that tunnel tab and raise "tunnel compression" lifting the boat further out of the water (hydrodynamic drag is greater then the aerodynamic losses) and pick up quite a bit of speed.
On some models of boats with pods out here on the West Coast they are equipped with 2 smaller tunnel tabs to create the same effect. Problem is people try to use them as trim tabs and end up barrel rolling boats every now and again.
That in itself kind of blows the sticking anything in the tunnel will slow ya down theory.
BTW for efficiency purposes.. Eliminator Daytona (Pod Boat) single Merc 502 (415HP if memory serves?) with a black hawk drive ran in the mid 90's..
Talon with a single HP 500 is upper 90's? (I think Hustler actually claims 100mph?)
RD
Last edited by RiverDave; 02-08-2012 at 11:46 PM.
