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For all those quasi-engine building experts out there I would say take your engine, put it either on a special dyno for 24 hours or in a boat and run it at full throttle for 24 hours and then get back here on OSO and tell us what happened to your engine. Got a feeling you might be getting back on here in way less than 24 hours telling us about the grenading the engine took?
Ilmor and any other manufacturer is willing to take the expense and effort to do a 24 hour full load test on a marine performance engine is way above the bar for testing and verifying the abilities of its engine! Kudos to them for the effort and the obviously successful results. Best Regards, Ray @ Raylar |
Originally Posted by Raylar
(Post 3626832)
For all those quasi-engine building experts out there I would say take your engine, put it either on a special dyno for 24 hours or in a boat and run it at full throttle for 24 hours and then get back here on OSO and tell us what happened to your engine. Got a feeling you might be getting back on here in way less than 24 hours telling us about the grenading the engine took?
Ilmor and any other manufacturer is willing to take the expense and effort to do a 24 hour full load test on a marine performance engine is way above the bar for testing and verifying the abilities of its engine! Kudos to them for the effort and the obviously successful results. Best Regards, Ray @ Raylar Ray, why don't you give us the details of this full load test? Are they cycling it from peak torque to peak horsepower? That's what the automakers do. If these engines can't even pass an automotive OEM test, then they are WAY overpriced as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't trust an engine that only had 24 hours of test running. You have to be kidding me. That to me says they are a lot of bling and very little engineering. Michael |
Michael1 :
Sir, not questioning your expertise as a test engineer only as a marine engine builder. I don't know how or under what parameters this test was conducted however I do know that Ilmor does and has always done a fantastic job of engine design and fabrication providing marine performance engines that exhibit fantastic reliability in the boats under real world performance boating conditions and in many racing applications. I am sure if you contact Ilmor or send a PM to Ilmordude here on OSO they would most graciously provide you with the basis and results of their tests. Please lets us all know what type of engine durability tests you perform in your position as a test engineer. I am sure many here would be interested to hear about your work, myself included. Best Regards, Ray @ Raylar |
Originally Posted by Michael1
(Post 3626846)
...very little engineering.
Michael You'll have to call Ilmor at (734) 456-3600 for more details on the test. They probably won't tell you everything, but I'll be they will tell you far more than Mercury will. ;) |
Originally Posted by C_Spray
(Post 3626864)
Ummm... You'd better readthis regarding Ilmor's engineering credentials.
You'll have to call Ilmor at (734) 456-3600 for more details on the test. They probably won't tell you everything, but I'll be they will tell you far more than Mercury will. ;) UD |
Good durability test: 150 hours cycling between peak torque and peak HP, stopping for oil change every 25 hours. Since even high performance boats spend a lot of time at idle and part throttle cruise, an engine that can pass this test should provide at least 300 hours of reliable service in the boat. Not many of us can log 100 hours per season so that's quite a few years of troublefree boating.
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Originally Posted by C_Spray
(Post 3626864)
Ummm... You'd better read this regarding Ilmor's engineering credentials.
You'll have to call Ilmor at (734) 456-3600 for more details on the test. They probably won't tell you everything, but I'll be they will tell you far more than Mercury will. ;) Having read the summary provided in the link, I cannot really tell much about their engineering abilities to produce a "consumer" product. That doesn't mean they are not doing good engineering, and in retrospect, my prior post was a bit reactionary. Even just to get the engine to meet emissions takes some decent engineering, and my hat is off to them for producing an emissions legal engine with good power. I've worked for both the aftermarket and OEM's, and they are completely two different types of engineering. I have a lot of respect for engineers that can get the maximum performance out of a design. I also have a lot of respect for engineers that can get the maximum durability out of a design. Those two diciplines rarely meet, however. I really hope Ilmor is doing more than 24 hours of durability testing for a product aimed at consumers. I would think they would be, especially if they have to warranty it for emissions, but I'll give them a call and see what they say. I think the question people should always ask is, "OK, it makes that much power, but for how long?" Michael |
Hey Mike,
Can you let us no more about how the OEM's test there engines, I think a lot would like to know. Maybe start another thread. |
Originally Posted by Raylar
(Post 3626858)
Michael1 :
Sir, not questioning your expertise as a test engineer only as a marine engine builder. I don't know how or under what parameters this test was conducted however I do know that Ilmor does and has always done a fantastic job of engine design and fabrication providing marine performance engines that exhibit fantastic reliability in the boats under real world performance boating conditions and in many racing applications. I am sure if you contact Ilmor or send a PM to Ilmordude here on OSO they would most graciously provide you with the basis and results of their tests. Please lets us all know what type of engine durability tests you perform in your position as a test engineer. I am sure many here would be interested to hear about your work, myself included. Best Regards, Ray @ Raylar At the request of Wildman_grafix, I created a new thread detailing the tests we ran at an automotive OEM Engine Durability Testing Michael |
Originally Posted by glassdave
(Post 3626821)
do you really think the Ilmore in incapable of that? With the amount of tech and design talent available in house there i am quite certain 2-400hrs isnt the slightest issue. I would assume the 24hrs is just a standard baseline test as these engines live there entire life at just about WOT, something i am sure they are aware of. I do agree they should do a multi hundred hour pull and use that in media but lets face it there reputation speaks for itself. If i had the means these would be my first choice bar none. Cant wait till they have a package complete with sterndrive man i get excited just thinkin about that :D
http://www.arneson-industries.com/pa...ravoConversion |
Originally Posted by Michael1
(Post 3627084)
Ray, generally I like to keep a low profile regarding my work background. Test engineering is just one of them. You can question my experitise as a marine engine builder - I've never built one!:D I'm sure you guys have a whole host of issues I've never dreamed of.
Some of the engine tests we ran: * 100 hours between peak torque and peak horsepower. Some tests were extended to 200 hours. Now I believe 200 is the norm. They run some to 400 hours. * Long term idle tests (sounds easy, but is brutal on some parts, especially the old flat tappet cams). * Cold start tests to -20F or below. * Overheating tests, including running engine with no coolant. * Road tests up to 100,000 miles, and some at high speeds up to 100 mph. * Octane tests. * Water ingestion and splash tests (run the car through deep water at high speeds) * Cooling tests (idle, grade, towing). * Coolant corrosion tests. * Fleet tests. * Salt spray tests. The testing is very extensive, and is one reason why automobile engines last so long now. I was talking to some Ford engineers last Fall, and was impressed with the testing they did on their Ecoboost engine. They said they did their durability test at full throttle at peak horsepower for I believe 200 hours, which is a lot for a turbo engine. That's brutal! One engine they ran in the Baja 1000 race, put it through some towing tests, and then put it through their normal dyno durability schedule. On their Powerstroke diesel engine, they essentially double the gasoline test schedule. I forgot to mention that the auto manufacturers do so much engine dyno durability testing that they actually sell the power generated by the testing back to the utility companies. Michael Break'in stuff for a living sounds fun . . . . . I'm still at the hobbyist level though :D |
Originally Posted by glassdave
(Post 3627105)
Break'in stuff for a living sounds fun . . . . . I'm still at the hobbyist level though :D
It's funny. At the time, it seemed very tedious with lots of documentation, and was one of those jobs everyone wanted to move "through" to get to design engineering. In retrospect, though, it was one of the most educational, fun and memorable jobs I've had. Michael |
What are u doing in Cali now Mike?
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Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 3627180)
What are u doing in Cali now Mike?
I take it you are in graphics. What type? Michael |
Originally Posted by BONDO10
(Post 3619151)
Instead of all these new motors,how about a Bravo replacement from Merc that can handle a 525,565,600?
http://www.mercuryracing.com/_media/...xt6ssm_med.png |
Lmao
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Originally Posted by GLH
(Post 3627335)
:party-smiley-004:#6 lbs vrs Bravo 1 lbs???Weight? |
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