Orbital Polisher Recomendations
 

I'm looking at getting some more professioanal Detail Equipt. - first on the list is a new Orbital Polisher... I am looking at the Porter Cable unit that gets good reviews...there are also Dewalt and Makita units.

What are peoples experiences...I am leaning toward the Porter Cable because it is pretty light and has a wide range of speed variations....

Thanks In Advance

Danny :sport009:

I have had all three and the Makita has been tirelessly indestructible, gets regular rough service (gel work takes a lot of friction/pressure). The DeWalt lasted the least amount of time and oddly enough felt the heavy duty-ist and the Makita felt the cheapest. My Portable Cable stuff is nice and falls right in between the two, its comparable to the Makita but seems better made. My future choice if i ever need to replace any of them would be Makita then PC then Dewalt.

When you say “orbital polisher,’ exactly what are you looking for? The reason I ask is that there are actually quite a few variations on the theme. For instance:

Orbital Polishers: Generally sold at Sears, Wal-Mart etc. These rather bulky machines are actually best suited only for removing wax and resemble kind of a fat steering wheel with the motor in the middle. They have a random orbital motion with fairly little power and generally have only one speed. They’re pretty useless for doing any kind of correction work.

Random Orbital Polishers: These machines are a step up in power and oddly enough, a couple of steps down in size. One very popular model is the Porter-Cable 7424XP. They feature a true random orbital motion and also a bit of a rotary motion – which can be stalled out with too much pressure. Although they run a smaller pad than the orbital above (usually 5.5”), they are capable of some correction work and actually work quite well. I have one of these and love it.

The most powerful of these machines is the Flex 3401 (which I also have) and this uses a 6.5” pad. The difference with this machine is that it has variable speed random orbital and rotary motion, but the rotary motion cannot be stalled. It’s a nice step up and this is my work horse for cars & trucks.

Rotary Buffers: These are the big mothers that can do the most work, but get you in the most trouble if you’re not careful. They feature a 100% rotary motion with variable speed. These are the machines Dave was talking about and I (unfortunately) have the DeWalt. The Makita is actually the much better machine here.

So, which one are you looking for?

Hey Dan,
I have the Porter Cable w/velcro pads.
Works great and makes the job go fast & safely on the finish.

Here's a kit online w/pads-

http://www.amazon.com/ULTIMATE-DETAI...1&sr=1-6-spell






Daughters Marathon charity if any OSOers would like to support -
http://www.firstgiving.com/fundraise...n-2012?fge=ask
Thank you ahead of time !
Kenny Lessard

Flex

If you're doing work on gel, I'd go for a rotary like the Makita all the way.

I have the PC 7424xp and it's great for use on painted finishes with the microfiber pads from Optimum, but gel coat really needs a rotary. Also, I've heard the Groit's Garage random orbital is a more powerful version of the Porter Cable and gets great reviews so that's something to look into.

I have a Flex and it has worked very well. I don't use it as much as Glass Dave would, as he uses them everyday. The Flex has worked great for what I have used it for.

fixx
 

+1 Flex 3401 rocks..ck ebay..

Flex rules!

I use my 24 year old Makita to start with and my Flex for finish.

I bought the 74 PC a while back and works well. I still hate waxing the boat though and it needs waxed badly. They need to invent one that I can sit in the pool and drink beer while it does the work. :-)

I have the meguires (same exact as porter cable) I love it, but as stated above it can be stalled which makes it not so good for heavy oxidation removal, for that you will use a conventional buffer. I do my heavy and med cut componds with my buffer, and use this guy for light cut, machine glaze, and wax

Pro- no swirl marks because of random pattern. Great for wax application and removal.

Minus- pads wear out quickly, pad backers come off long before pad is spent.

If I could get my Makita to die (or even come close) I am replacing it with a Flex, been hearing that name a lot. Forgot about that one.

Dittos on the porter cable. Under $150 at lowes

http://www.properboatcare.com/

They have the Flex, Makitia and Porter Cable.

I bought my PC random orbital in 2007, and it's saved me so much time. The Gel Coat Labs products have been fantastic, lasting far longer than I thought they would.

Great outfit to deal with, they had a name change over the winter I guess. Autopia took over Proper Auto Care, and the boat end went on their own.

What are you trying to accomplish is the first question? I have at least 2 of every tool mentioned in this thread that are all heavily used. Depending on your application a better recommendation could be given.

Remember Dave, Flex makes a number of machines. The 3401 we've been talking about is the heavy duty random orbital one that I have. I think the one you want is their new full rotary. Supposedly the lightest rotary out there. If I were working on boats full time, I'd grab that or the Makita.

Yea, checked out there website got lots to choose from. The Makita is nice and light and so far indestructible. Thanks for the info

I like the Porter Cable 7424xp but the Flex is also a pretty good brand for polishing and applying wax. For rotary machines I've been using the Hitachi SP18VA and really like it for moderate to heavy oxidation, scratches, and swirl marks...nice power and light/maneuverable.

I like the PC and Hitachi machines so much that we now carry both on our website along with a series of foam and wool pads.

Here's a link to some boat/hot rod pics using the Porter Cable, our Crystal Cut Polish, and our heavy cut yellow Honecomb foam pad...
http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/...ystal-Cut.html

Feel free to contact me and I'll share all the info I have and what has/hasn't worked for us.

-Tim
Performance Boat Candy
866.385.7750

:nicethread: Wow ... Thanks So Much for the great info everyone... I may be contacting a few of you if I have questions...I will check out some of these sights... and have a look around.

I am not looking to do anything serious...I am just looking for a something to help me do a better job on removing oxidation, fuel stains and whatever from the occassional over night Poker Runs ....

I am not going to be doing anything that I want to risk burning the finish on either boat or car...so I don't want to get in trouble... right now I do all hand application and then buff it with a WEN 7000 10" Buffer...that I probably did get at a Box Store...years ago...I use it to take the wax or cleaners off over the larger areas of my decks and sides.

Again thanks for the responses ... I will check it all out and keep ya posted...

Danny :angry-smiley-044:

Could someone recommend what pads with what material would you use. ( very,very lite oxidation) what pad would you use to satrt and finish along with speeds not to damage anything. Thanks. That PC kit from amazon looks good.

I bought a kit from Griots Garage a couple years ago. Privately Labels 6" and 3" orbitals. I use it 6-7 times per year on cars and boats. Works awesome.

I let a buddy who does Yacht service in Lauderdale borrow it and hew bought a set the next week. He beats them to death but hasn't killed it yet.

Also their Speedshine is great for quick cleaning of bitd bropping, black marks and water spots.

www.griotsgarage.com

The two types of pads generally used are either foam or wool pads. Foam pads are generally smaller in diameter than wool pads and produce less friction than wool due to the surface area and material makeup. The bigger the surface area of the pad, the more heat that's generated, which increases the cutting action of your polish or compound. For example, if you use the same polish with a heavy cutting pad vs. a light cutting pad, you will get more cutting action and vice-versa. Likewise, if you use a higher speed you will get more cutting action than a lower speed, so take the least aggressive approach when starting out since each surface is different.

Professional detailers typically use wool pads in conjunction with a rotary (high-speed) buffer/polisher but these tools take time to master and can easily burn through paint or gel coat if not used properly. Conversely, a dual-action (DA) polisher typically produces less cutting action and gives the novice or intermediate user a more uniform finish and has less chance of burning the gel coat or paint.

For your purpose, I would suggest going with a DA polisher and a couple different densities of high quality foam pads along with a good polish and a good wax. I also suggest staying away from products that claim to be an "all-in-one" product, such as a "cleaner wax". Polishes and compounds are meant to be used separately from waxes and any company that markets their product that way is feeding you a line.

Here's the process I suggest when polishing:

-Start with a clean surface free from wax and environmental contaminants
-I like using a 4" to 5" pad with the DA because it gives you the right amount of rotation and oscillation
-Mist your pad with water (use a light to medium cutting pad to start because you can always get a more aggressive pad to increase the cutting action)
-Apply 5 to 6 pea-sized drops of polish to your pad
-Blot a 2' x 2' area to spread the product over the section (this gives you even coverage over the area and will minimize splatter)
-Start your DA polisher on the #2 setting, which is usually about 2000-2500 OPM (oscillations per minute) until you spread the product over the area evenly, then increase to the #5 setting which is approx. 5000 OPM
-Make slow horizontal passes overlapping the previous area 50%, then make slow vertical passes overlapping the previous area 50% using about 3-5 lbs of pressure
-Use as many passes as you need until the product becomes translucent or until you get the desired finish you are after
-Stop the polisher and buff the area with a quality microfiber towel to remove any excess polish.
-Do not allow the product to dry on the finish of your boat
-Once you have completed the polishing, finish by waxing the entire surface with a paste wax by hand or with a glaze wax (we prefer the glaze wax) using the DA polisher and a wax application foam pad using the same steps used when applying the polish.

Here's a link to a video we shot at Eliminator boats showing how to perform this process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvSum...layer_embedded

Everyone has a slightly different way of doing the above process, so my suggestion is to find a method that works best for you.

Good luck!

-Tim
Performance Boat Candy

^^ This post is dead on. The only suggestions I would have is to prime the pad by rubbing a uniform amount of polish on the face of the pad instead of misting with water. The reasoning behind this is that the abrasives will be more uniformly space on the surface. Another would be to brush or towel the pad after every section. Oxidation builds up quickly in a pad and will not allow the pad/polish to work as effectively. For most boats that are maintained well or newer a dual action is all that is needed to remove the oxidation and polish any swirls out. Generally I will use the Griots DA with either an orange medium cut, green light cut or white polish pad. Scale your polish up in abrasiveness as needed. If possible I will make an extensive post regarding all types of fiberglass correction using all the current tools of the trade. Sorry for the mega paragraph as I am on my phone.

:ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004:
Wow great info...thanks for all the technical expertise, I'm anxious to try some these methods and products....great info, keep it coming.

Thanks for the video link Tim, that was great!

Danny :angry-smiley-044:

Thanks a lot. My boat was done by a pro since new plus covered alway's so it is pretty much oxidation free so I think I will do the detail this spring. And with your insight and help I'm sure it will come out just as good. Thanks again.

I'd also go with more pressure than 3-4lbs. More like 17-20lbs including the weight of the machine. You can practice on a bathroom scale. Of course, you don't turn on the machine when doing this. lol

I'd also recommend using less polish on the pad. 2-3 drops rather than 4-5. More product equals sling and clogged pads. Less is more here.

Also, look into the microfiber pads by McGuire's or Optimum. Newer technology than foam or wool and will cut more like wool but finish down like foam.

Also, wash the boat again with Dawn dishwashing detergent or some appropriate soap with some all purpose cleaner mixed in to clean off the polishing oils prior to waxing. You can alternatively wipe the boat down with a 75% water/25% isopropyl alcohol (IPA) mixture to remove polishing oils.

The only one I see at Lowes near me is a Porter Cable 7346 orbital sander polisher. It looks the same to me.

Ill be trying out the microfiber pads shortly once the season picks up. Probably will get the Optimum/Chemical Guys pads as they can also be used with the rotary.

are you looking into just waxing and polishing or heavy duty work? If your just looking for the common wax and buff jobs I have a harbor freight special that works fine for 30 bucks. Now if I were to be more involved and need major work I would probably spend the money. The one I have is about the size of a palm sander.

The Lowes sander is the Porter Cable model I have. It works just fine and is the same random orbital polisher. Make sure you get a new backing plate and pads though because the ones that come with it are junk.

While I agree with your comments in part, wouldn't you recommend that for a beginner/intermediate user, they should start with less pressure and inspect the area since there are other variables such as product type, pad density, etc. that come into play? My approach when instructing detailers is to take a less aggressive approach in the beginning, inspect the work, then increase pressure and other factors as needed. The reason is that not all products on the market work the same. Here's an example that I've experienced when testing and developing our products: Two well-known companies' products we tested side by side both claimed their polish removed 2500 grit sanding marks, however because one of the products' cutting powders didn't diminish as quickly as the other, the results were different, given all other factors were equal (same pad, polisher, pressure, technique, etc.). The product that didn't break down as quickly as the other had more cutting action and therefore a much different result. This is why we always instruct our customers to take a less aggressive approach--you can always increase factors such as pressure, product type/brand, pad density, polisher speed, etc to get a different result. While this is not as critical for polishing as it is for compounding, the concept is the same. The surface is also a critical factor; if a boat is painted vs. gel coated, the technique should definitely start with a less aggressive approach. Given that I don't know the level of expertise readers of this thread have, nor the products and tools they are ultimately using, my suggestion is to start less aggressive and adjust from there. JMO.

-Tim
Performance Boat Candy

Does this buffer have the same orbital action as the porter cable? My paint is in perfect shape so I use book keen polish. I'm just looking for something easier then doing it by hand.

Thanks

They already have one but it's made in mexico:lolhit:

Excellent points - all of them. One of the very first and most important rules of detailing is "least aggressive pad / process / product first." Said another way, it's a whole lot easier moving up the scale to get the correction level needed than it is fixing a worse mess that you just created.

I cant speak for what a porter cable does. This one seems to either go full circle or semi circle action. It works fine for what I need, But Im not getting into hard core work. Like I said for the average waxer this thing will do great.