100% YES! Read that again YES, I can sell you two ASD6 Drop Box Arnesons for $30K.. Every day of the week even.

I'd like to know what experience you have with a surface drive also Waconda. You seem to have an erection for ARNESONS.

I did not seem to read where you addressed the speed loss with a BMAX. You mentioned 8-10 mph but blamed it on the operators in the past. You said " As with any new drive set up props will have to be tested to get it dialed in." I take it that this is an extra cost for the boater also? Your budget does not seem to mention setup work after someone purchases a BMAX.

If you need an explanation of pricing, price out a complete, not a portion of a drive but a complete drive assembly that is required to make a boat function. Price IMCO, Teague and others and write that # down. You mentioned that your price on OSO as $30K for two drives with transom assm. Does that include steering, standoff box, bell-housing, trim pump, drive coupler, rear engine mount, mounting hardware and such or just the outside of the boat?

Now compare the real # and the one from the other Bravo Drive unit alternatives.

Now compare it to the cost of a #7M Kit... Understand now?

Good points Rik, but the reality if someone goes the Bmax/Imco/Teague route they don't have to replace all that stuff so cost would be lower. The benefits of the Anesons are worth the extra money and I think if you look at how much it costs to upgrade a motor to gain 8-10 mph then your drives look cheap. If someone one was rigging a boat from scratch then it is a level playing field.

You don't [I]have to[I] but should replace all that stuff. :cool-smiley-026:

12 year old worn out parts are just asking for trouble, especially when running higher speeds with more power

What I have noticed as a pattern, Maybe even a good "sales pitch" some use to justify a product other than the Arneson......

Pricing/selling a product with not all the parts up front, to later sell more parts to the customer. So in the end, much more money was spent on parts then original, sorta like in a "Payment Plan". Obviously we Know americans are suckers for "payment plans"!

For example...

Just buy this upper unit and your good.....stock xr lower breaks and the metal shavings take out the upper unit.....now upgrade the lower unit AND rebuild your newer upper.....

Or...Buy this complete drive for only xxx....after you pay and receive....oh yeah, you might need a new tie bar.....and prob should get the upgraded gimbal ring.....might as well add a stand off box also...etc etc.

You can piece parts together like a "payment plan" but in the long run you will spend more then just waiting and saving for the Arneson.

If someone does not like the Arneson, fine, but the "right" thing to do is buy a Complete set up from the competitor. (at least....stand off box, HD gimbal ring, Helmet, resovoir, complete drive, tie bar.) (maybe even transom assembly, steering, etc)

Imagine what kind of threads we would have if People try to "piece" together engines!!! LOL!

Buy a number 6 boat to begin with, you're money ahead in the long run! :drink:

call PETE NOPPER 508 993 5050 he can upgrade your xr drives with max drive parts. he did his drive and boxes drives. Pete runs a hp 540 big power, Ernie has the single 31 with 975hp and the 26 sutphen with big power. no failures. wish I stuck with that root. since the rocker was fine with the bravo drive. I do like the konrad and once the bottom of the hull is blueprinted it should be fine. they have a lg upper. but call Pete there very happy with the max upgrade and Pete puts a lil magic in there to. guys that need tranny upgrades call Pete too. good luck Artie

Probably best advice their is. But for those of us already past that point. I don't know squat about the asd's but what turns me off the most is the push it down your throat hard sell. They probably are everything they say but what I would like to see is some people who actually have done the upgrade on here to talk about them. It certainly would make shelling out the 45-55 grand a little easier. I can see where Rik feel's like sometimes people attack his product, but really I think they are just sceptical about what they dont understand, me being one. Rik maybey it would be worthwhile to give a couple of guys a smoking deal to do the conversions, then in return they could come on here and give us all some real time facts to compare with.

Lets clarify a few things- they do NOT harden your upper gears, they Cryo and Iso-rem polish them. I have looked at there web site and it looks like they do identical ugrades to Bravo drives as Max machine worx (except I see they mention warranties). Back in 04/05 or so I experimented HEAVILY with hardening bravo gears, I also tried many other things such as DLC coating, Cryo-iso rem finishing among other things. I found that in the case of hardening the gears it did NOTHING what so ever for longevity because the base metal was too soft and it created a "egg shell" out side finish and they actually failed faster. there are NO drive rebuilders that I know of that are hardening gear sets for Bravo drives. Now, as far as Cryo-iso/rem finishing, I and others have been succesfull with this process, the grain structure of the gear is stabilized by cooling it to near aboslute zero in a controlled chamber and then the gear is micro-polished in a iso-rem process. This seems to make the gears go longer before pitting on the faces of the teeth (40 hours vs 20 hours on my personal boat lower gears), it DOESN'T seem to do ANYTHING for overall root strength of the gears however. I experimented EXSTENSIVELY on my 1000 + hp boat and many others with this. I did some xr upper gears for race boats, there problem was they would blow teeth off the uppers and then destroy the upper as the pieces went thru the teeth and after the Cryo-iso process they STILL had this happen just as fast. If you have problems with your teeth pitting it will help, if you have problems with teeth BREAKING it is a waste of your money. Mr Gadgets has had the same experience except he has worked on MANY more drives than me and sold MANY newer sets of XR gears just to see them blow the teeth off and destroy everything, and this was with perfect tolerances, perfect pattern, pre-load, back-lash and a steel upper tower/hd cap. He seems to think (as many others do) there is a SERIOUS problem with Mercruiser XR upper gear quality. Teague, Imco SC, ALL american drive service ALL USE FACTORY Merc JUNK GEARS that at the most are polished and cryoed. There is NO GOOD SOLUTION for a stronger upper except something HEAVIER-B-max upper, Imco SCX, Konrad, arneson, etc, DON'T BELIEVE ANY ONE ELSE"S BULL****, you will just throw your money away!!!!
Heavy boats with big props-BLOW BRAVO GEARS TO PIECES!!!!!!!!!!
Now, someone posted that they have had good luck with there teague drive, great, but remember -light boat with low hydrodynamic drag. I am also running 1000+hp/ft lbs of tq myself in front of a Bravo upgraded drive with Max worx upgrades and have almost 400 hours on a set of 03/04 XR gears that I had cryoed and isoed BUT my boat only weighs 4500 lbs too and I stay away from props with more than 4 blades. I have also broken/chewed up and worn out about 15,000$ worth of lower gears, shafts, bearings, housings and associated parts in past 10 years, FWIW, Smitty

Thanks again for everybody's advice, know I have another question. If I go with an Imco SCX upper can I bolt am XR lower on it? I know it is not the strongest but at least I could save some money toil next season or later this season. With the Imco I need the helmet change( another $995) Do I need any changes on steering! If I go with the Bmax I can put a Bravo lower with a shaft change plus they want you to upgrade to the Imco gimbal ring. No steering changes but you still have the shaft change as well.

anything will break.. with the 6 and arneson it will be the trannies .. you can bank on it. their is no bullet proof drive out their. just my 02 ct.