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US Appeals Court rules Pledge of Allegience Unconstitutional

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Old 06-29-2002, 06:20 PM
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This one is kind of important too...

In Congress July 4, 1776,
The Unanimous Declaration of The Thirteen United States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, having its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient suffrance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and Convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally, the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our fellow Citizen taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right out to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Old 06-29-2002, 06:26 PM
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Now...unless they were talking about little green men from Mars, I am PRETTY sure they were talking about GOD when they...well...when they SAID GOD...


cre·a·tor Pronunciation Key (kr-tr)
One that creates: the creator of a new television series; a born creator of trouble.
Creator God. Used with the.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



n 1: the Christian god [syn: Godhead, Lord, Creator, Divine, God Almighty, Almighty, Jehovah] 2: a person who grows or makes or invents things
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world...

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence...


\Di*vine"\, a. [Compar. Diviner; superl. Divinest.] [F. divin, L. divinus divine, divinely inspired, fr. divus, dius, belonging to a deity; akin to Gr. ?, and L. deus, God. See Deity.] 1. Of or belonging to God; as, divine perfections; the divine will. ``The immensity of the divine nature.'' --Paley.

2. Proceeding from God; as, divine judgments. ``Divine protection.'' --Bacon.

3. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; religious; pious; holy; as, divine service; divine songs; divine worship.

4. Pertaining to, or proceeding from, a deity; partaking of the nature of a god or the gods. ``The divine Apollo said.'' --Shak.

5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; supremely admirable; apparently above what is human. In this application, the word admits of comparison; as, the divinest mind. Sir J. Davies. ``The divine Desdemona.'' --Shak.
Old 06-29-2002, 07:36 PM
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Your post says that god gave us the rights to Life , Liberty , And the pursuit of happiness...I don't think those words appear in the bible , Where does god give us these rights.....?

You keep linking god with these words...Show me the god that said this...

BTW...God gave us the right to own slaves.......And kill them....Is that a god given right.....?....Yes it is....and who was above god to take that right from me.....?If this country IS founded on the christian values then why did they abolish all the laws that god set for them.....? killing your son if he is rebelious , or Taking on slaves , or murdering nonbelievers...?It seems they said the christian values but then through out all of gods laws...
Old 06-29-2002, 07:55 PM
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Nice try on changing the argument crash...
Old 06-29-2002, 08:39 PM
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Old saying, "If god didn't exist, man would create him".
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Old 06-29-2002, 08:58 PM
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You guys need to take a break and pay homage to Don Aronow.........

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Old 06-30-2002, 01:20 PM
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You can't take away their own words...Do these guys sound like they were christians...?

Thomas Paine
"I do not believe in the creed professed by any church that I know of...each chusch will accuse the other of unbelife , And for my part , I disbelieve them all"

John Adams
"This would be the best of all possible worlds , If there were no religion in it"

"The doctrine of the divinity of jesus is made a convient cover for absurdity"

Ethan Allen
"I am no christian"
He even stopped his own wedding when the judge asked if he agreed to gods laws...

James Madison
"Religions bondage shackles and debilitaes the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise"

And finally Jefferson
"I do not find in our particular superstition of christianty , one redeeming feature"

"Millions of innocent women and children , since the introduction of christianity , have been burnt , tortured , fined , and imprisoned."

Only 7% of the people of the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration was signed

Does it really sound like these guys founded this country on christianity....?

And the god that you are fighting for so blindly

Lets see how he and you feel about children...

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through , And every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their CHILDREN shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes , their houses shall be spoiled , and their wives shall be ravished" Isaiah 13: 15-16

This is god ordering the slaughter of women and children in babylon , modern day Iraq

Killing more kids...

"Thus saith the lord of hosts , Now go and smite Amalek , and utterly destroy all that they have , And spare them not , But slay both man , woman , INFANT and SUCKLING , ox and sheep , camel and ass." Samuel 15:2-3

more killing kids

"And we took all his cities at that time , and destroyed the men and the women and the LITTLE ONES" Deuteronomy 2:34

The fact that you sheep will stand behind a god that encourages and orders the murder and slicing up of sucklings is just sickening...I will never respect anyone that supports that kind of behavior...This is just a little...The whole book is filled with this sick garbage...If you do not stand behind these slaughters then you are defying do the math...

And Mlite....You can't take away their own words....Can you show us some quotes that suppoirt your side....?...The answer is no , I figured that you already did a bunch of searches and could not find squat....and oh ya....Thats a real nice god that you are fighting for..
Old 06-30-2002, 01:55 PM
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It's pretty damn simple. I don't need to write a 1,000 word essay on the constituion. (If you don't want to say the pledge of allegiance, don't but DO NOT take my right away from me and everyone else! Let's worry about BIGGER problems.
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Old 06-30-2002, 05:33 PM
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What year is it ?
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Old 06-30-2002, 06:10 PM
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Not to throw a curve ball in here. But since it has been raining here for weeks now And since we have such knowledgeable people on American History can someone tell me why we fought the Civil War? Was it over SLAVERY or STATES RIGHTS? Thanks in advance.
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