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US Appeals Court rules Pledge of Allegience Unconstitutional

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Old 06-27-2002, 12:26 PM
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I send my twins to private school. Just about the only schools left in this part of Fla. that don't teach in spanish!! They found it was easier to teach the english speaking kids to speak spanish than the spanish speaking kids english!!?? So it will not effect my family
gmhdfan

Glad to hear you have twins so do I. I certainly agree with you that this Guy is an idiot in my opinion and the pledge should not be changed. But your comment about ". Just about the only schools left in this part of Fla. that don't teach in spanish!! They found it was easier to teach the english speaking kids to speak spanish than the spanish speaking kids english!!?? " is weird.

My children attend private school in the heart of Miami and are taught all subjects in English except their foreign languauge which obviously has to be taught in spanish since that's the language they are learning. I attended public schools all of my life
up until I graduated from High Scholl in 1988 and I was taught all subjects in English. Same for my college and University courses.

I think your statement may give the "impression" that because someone can speak a foreign language makes them LESS American or MAKES them Love this country any less.? Which I don't beleive is the case. Could you please clarify...?
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by supercrash
Here might be some good news...?...Drudge report is about to run a story about a member of the supreme court stepping down...

www.drudgereport.com

But the bad news...?...They just OKed public money for religious schools...

Whats so bad about school vouchers?? It,s not just religious schools, it's for PRIVATE schools to be picked by the parents of POOR inner city kids that don't think the goverment schools are doing the job. Without an education how do you expect these poor children to break the cycle of inner city getto's. So they can become productive Americans.
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by gmhdfan



Whats so bad about school vouchers?? It,s not just religious schools, it's for PRIVATE schools to be picked by the parents of POOR inner city kids that don't think the goverment schools are doing the job. Without an education how do you expect these poor children to break the cycle of inner city getto's. So they can become productive Americans.
Unfortunately, the vouchers don't cover the entire cost of a private school -- just what would have been spent on the child at a public school. So what the voucher ends up being is a tuition break for parents who were going to send their child to a private school anyway. For the voucher to work as you suggest, it must cover the entire cost of attending a private school.
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:43 PM
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Let's remember that we "all" pay taxes that support public schools. Even though my children attend private/parochial school I still have to pay taxes to support public schools. Why shouldn't
anyone not have the right to use the vouchers to place their kids in the school they wish?. Recently their was a study done here in South Florida that showed that if every child in "private" school suddenly stopped attending private school and went to a public school the school system would literally collapse financially because it could not handle the 10's of thousands of children that would enter the school system. So the question is where is all the money that we are paying for public schools going????

Even if the voucher only covers a portion of the tution that's fine
with me.

Last edited by Pantera24; 06-27-2002 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:45 PM
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well put Rico. that's what i was trying to convey
didn't come out as nice though

Russ
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Pantera24


gmhdfan

Glad to hear you have twins so do I. I certainly agree with you that this Guy is an idiot in my opinion and the pledge should not be changed. But your comment about ". Just about the only schools left in this part of Fla. that don't teach in spanish!! They found it was easier to teach the english speaking kids to speak spanish than the spanish speaking kids english!!?? " is weird.

My children attend private school in the heart of Miami and are taught all subjects in English except their foreign languauge which obviously has to be taught in spanish since that's the language they are learning. I attended public schools all of my life
up until I graduated from High Scholl in 1988 and I was taught all subjects in English. Same for my college and University courses.

I think your statement may give the "impression" that because someone can speak a foreign language makes them LESS American or MAKES them Love this country any less.? Which I don't beleive is the case. Could you please clarify...?
Impression I am trying to make is if you don't teach these people to SPEAK english they will be cleaning bathrooms and hotel rooms for the rest of thier lives. I have lots of spanish friends (I don't think of them as spanish, just freinds) It use to be that people were so proud to be a part of this country that they whould go to night school to learn how to speak english. I have neighbors who lie about their address so that thier kids can go to a different goverment school. When you have more spanish kids in a class being taught by a spanish teacher, before you know it things are being said in spanish instead of english. My kids will be taught spanish in private school in "spanish class". How much money does it cost us to have everything printed twice? Once in english, and once in spanish. As in the phone book, electric bills, the list goes on. Hell I was in the bank the other day and they only had the banners spelled in spanish???? Is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture.

Good luck with your twins. Mine are Double Trouble.
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Old 06-27-2002, 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by seanclong


Unfortunately, the vouchers don't cover the entire cost of a private school -- just what would have been spent on the child at a public school. So what the voucher ends up being is a tuition break for parents who were going to send their child to a private school anyway. For the voucher to work as you suggest, it must cover the entire cost of attending a private school.
From what I understand the cost to teach a child in a charter school is less then it is in a goverment school. Because they have more control over how the money is spent. This is only for schools that are failing to teach kids to read and write. It will not effect me I will still have to pay my school taxes and TUITION. But the inner city schools are not working, something has to be done.
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Old 06-27-2002, 01:42 PM
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gmhdfan I'm with you.
I was offended when the last years phone books arrived and one version was in spanish.
If I was moving to another country I would make every effort to learn the language.
Tuesday I was at FEDEX applying for a part time job and there was a lady, who was spanish, applying also. The applications are computer based and she needed a translator to help her fill it out. We started the application process which took me 15 minutes to fill out and had an interview immediately after. I was there for a total of two hours and she wasn't done filling it out before I left. How could she realistically expect to get a job if she can't read or write english?
Should we have everything in dual languages? I think not!
Should we (I) be required to speak two languages just to be able to communicate with our neighbors? NO!

Don't get me wrong, I have friends and neighbors that are hispanic and all are great people. My next door neighbors wife doesn't speak english. We try to communicate, she understands some, but it's hard. Her grandson (5 yrs old) speaks both languages and acts as translator.
If you're going to live here, please learn the languge.
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Old 06-27-2002, 01:51 PM
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SC, How about the Declaration of Independence.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

This is my point. Our Founding fathers came to this country to escape the monarchy that was able to take away the rights of the people. They believed that the Creator (God) endowed us with rights that cannot be taken away.

It's not MY "little story" It's our Founding fathers!!!!!
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Old 06-27-2002, 03:00 PM
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In response to the Founding fathers being Deist's.

As is typical with those who make this claim, they name only a handful of Founders and then generalize the rest. This in itself is a mistake, for there are over two hundred Founders (fifty-five at the Constitutional Convention, ninety who framed the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights, and fifty-six who signed the Declaration) and any generalization of the Founders as deists is completely inaccurate.
The reason that such critics never mention any other Founders is evident. For example, consider what must be explained away if the following signers of the Constitution were to be mentioned: Charles Pinckney and John Langdon—founders of the American Bible Society; James McHenry—founder of the Baltimore Bible Society; Rufus King—helped found a Bible society for Anglicans; Abraham Baldwin—a chaplain in the Revolution and considered the youngest theologian in America; Roger Sherman, William Samuel Johnson, John Dickinson, and Jacob Broom—also theological writers; James Wilson and William Patterson—placed on the Supreme Court by President George Washington, they had prayer over juries in the U. S. Supreme Court room; and the list could go on. And this does not even include the huge number of thoroughly evangelical Christians who signed the Declaration or who helped frame the Bill of Rights.
Any portrayal of any handful of Founders as deists is inaccurate. (If this group had really wanted some irreligious Founders, they should have chosen Henry Dearborne, Charles Lee, or Ethan Allen). Perhaps critics should spend more time reading the writings of the Founders to discover their religious beliefs for themselves rather than making such sweeping accusations which are so easily disproven.
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