TexasVines

sorry if I come off as a dick sometimes, but I view the WWW as a place where important topics can be discussed with some anonymity if that can't take place on the WWW then where will it take place

and field corn is harvested by a machine (a combine) and the vast majority of those will be operated by American citizens

the vast majority of sweet corn will also be machine harvested with a picker and the vast majority of those are also going to be operated by American citizens

fruits and other vegetables especially those like non-canning tomatoes, lettuce, melons, and the like will be hand harvested

as for the "foreigners" I thought you were referring to foreign oil VS US produced ethanol

again I am fully aware of the faults of ethanol, but that does not mean that ethanol does not have benefits as well

it was stated there are no benefits to ethanol and that is incorrect and I listed the benefits and so far the only arguments back are the same "bad for old engines and bad for small engines" or the debunked claims of food cost or net energy loss

old car engines can be made to run with ethanol....the bad news is it cost money.....new cars can be made to run as well or better and as efficiently if not more efficiently on ethanol and the only bad news to that is we are relying on car companies (especially American ones) to actually figure something out......the good and bad news is they have been selling these cars in Brazil quite well for years and years, but here in the USA they would rather dig their heals in and pretend ethanol is going away....it is not

as for small engines and outboard boat engines it would not be cost effective to retrofit older engines...the good and bad news here is that new engines can be made to use ethanol just fine and that small engines and boat engines are made so crappy today for the most part that they will wear out soon enough and if the manufactures would get with the times there would be no issue upon replacement

there is no reason that an older inboard, or inboard/outboard engine of any performance cannot be made or retrofitted to run with ethanol just like an older or newer car

in spite of what oil companies sometimes still "say" or leak to the public they love ethanol right now because it is a great way to boost 84 octane gas to 87 octane without using more expensive products that are also oil derivatives and since ethanol is only mildly related to the price of oil (production cost) that means that ethanol does not always go up in price like other octane boosters do and that other oxygenates do when oil jumps and since it is easier and cheaper to refine 84 octane gas and boost it they are enjoying the profits that ethanol helps them capture

the blending subsidy is long gone and even if the mandate for 10% is gone many believe that ethanol would actually increase in production after that

it is here to stay and the technology to use it in many forms and blends is out there in the world in use every day....there is no reason to not implement that here in the USA as well since at the end of the day it provides a CHOICE of using various blends based on cost and mileage and it provides ALTERNATIVES based on the price of oil and gas and it provides price stability without crop price supports for farmers that allows for higher production of crops which can be shifted to end users based on price and demand

Scabby Jack

IMHO it is a bad idea that I truly hope is not here to stay. The corrosive nature of ethanol is not a good thing for our engines. The hygroscopic nature makes it ill suited for marine applications. For the end user it is no bargain.

keith2500hd

all gasoline has some amount of ethanol 3-5%, it is the only epa approved oxygenate for gasoline, mbte is banned. i would be leary of those pure gas stations, test by baby-bottle. you might be surprised. people confuse methanol with ethanol since it has been used in racing for so long. the main problem is fuel distributors mix more ethanol to cut gas to increase profit, since they make very little off it now. the corn does not disappear from making it, about 30% comes out as distillers grains(high protein animal feed), alot is exported overseas by barge to make food stuffs, usda and fda won't allow use here as food stuff. epa smog zones(large cities) use alot of ethanol in rfg(reformulated gas), i think alot is sold in outscurts to keep product moving. universities in north dakota and iowa tested some blends, found that 1% biodiesel provided some btu's and injector and top-end lubrication. i have no problem with it as long as i am properly informed and allowed to make up my mind to use or not use. the oil companies used to use butane/propane to make up octane and now use the ethanol, but any moisture to exceeds cloudpoint of fuel pulls ethanol and octane out. leaves with crap fuel. don't worry too much about that, with waterbased paint, quess were the varnish is going that used to go for paint mfgr? happy now.

ChargeIt

The bump from E10 to E15 would be BAD!

Local station just did a big Greenie promo on E15 for $1.15 Yes, $1.15 for two hours - all 16 pumps were rockn, lines into the street, cop car directing and a tanker was on standby dumping. ( I was in my diesel so they let me in the back door, then I dropped the tailgate
They said all cars after 2001 should be compatable and accroding to Toyota the 3.0L engine was supposed to be good as of 1999.
I did a quick google search and found several threads that warned they had problems including engine warning lights and poor running.
We have a 2002 Avalon w 300k mi that is CLEAN.

I grabbed 40 gal in my gas cans I use to refuel the boat.
Adding as the wife needed fuel, no problem at first. Let her run the tank down and gave her a full tank.
Engine light came on with in 10mi of starting her 90 mile commute!
When she got home I dropped in 5 gal of NO ALCOHOL fuel for the boat, drove to the auto parts store and reset the light....... no more problems and NO MORE E15 GAS!!!

CrownHawg

Keith, I suspect you are absolutely correct! I recently did my own little "experiment". We have several local stations that advertise "100% Gas, NO ethanol", I normally get around 24-25mpg in my daily commuter/beater. I decided to fill up at one of these "100%" stations(at 24 cents higher!) to see. When I hand calculated my mileage, it was exactly the same as when I used the 10% ethanol gas. I do know that ethanol does not have the same BTUs per volume as pure gas, so I found out quick that just because THEY claim pure gas, don't mean it's so. My biggest problem with ethanol is phase seperation and it's tendancy to "soak" moisture. In a boat, that can sit for weeks, with an open vent, you can end up with ALOT of water in your fuel. Just my observations.