I can't speak for DCB, but if you think Baja and Outerlimits are the same because they both have monster gauges.....I can't type enough to set you straight.

I think however, if you could find a bunch of main stream parts from the housing and auto industry, and build a boat out of them you may be able to drive the price down. And you would be able to buy parts at home depot and auto zone

And BTW, the manufacture does not pay the retail price for the merc power.

So, in your head. Yu think a $500k retail boat that can be purchased for $375,000 has $310,000 of gross profit built into the price. And if everyone would just give a pc of the "extra" $300k in profit we could all purchase new 40 ft boats that do 125mph? Dude...

I guess if you want look at it like that then yes, this I a world of the richer get richer and the poorer want what the rich have. There could only be two avenues for them to travel...drop prices and sale boats, people stop getting taken and stop buying. People are so willing to pay these price tags, not because they think they are getting a good deal, because it's hundreds of thousands of dollars so it must be good. Why is everything on are planet going up in price, but are wages barley budge!!

Like I've said, I'm not try into be a smat butt, or cause problems, I just wanted to know if theses things could be sold for less, and if the mark ups on all involed is where it comes fom.

Rick

You just don't know your looking for. When you looked at DCB i assume you mean you looked at pictures. I don't think your going to understand "custom" by looking at pictures. Sure there's gel design, power and interior but there is more than that.

Go through a build and you'll find there is more to custom than paint, power, interior color. I've gone through 2 compete new boat builds. A Ultra and a DCB. Sure there were boats on the market used but being a lifelong boater and knowing what I like and don't like, there were a few requirements that I specifically had which I couldn't find on the used market. Why "settle" when I have the opportunity to "get what I want" Both Ultra and DCB worked with me to incorporate the customizations I wanted.

Is it expensive? I guess depends on what "it's worth" to you. If I spent half the money but wasn't satisfied or it was lacking something wanted/needed, then was it worth the savings? Not to me. That's not to say I wouldn't buy used versus buying new. All the other boats i've ever had have been used and I was happy with :)

I read this and laughed thinking "this kid just doesn't get it and i'm not sure he ever would." :lolhit:

I'm not meaning anything mean by that statement, but based upon the thread and all the responses and input, I'm not really sure what you could be told to understand the difference between a custom boat builder and that are "mass" produced.

Go spend 2-3 months every day at a custom shop and look at the manpower it takes to lay up, build, paint/gel, rig a boat and you will have a much better understanding than we can all put into words.

You will be astonished at the man hours it takes to go from order to delivery. Simply moving around all the parts is a huge task.

Then on top of all that you need to warranty your product, and maintain liability insurance for the morons that crash it and wish to blame you.

Uncle Dave

friend of mine just paid $400 for a baseball bat, makes my boat purchase look reasonable. pick your poison.

im in the collision repair biz. try this one, $380 for a radiator overflow/washer fluid bottle for a chrysler aspen. nothing but a glorified milk jug.

I fully understand, I'm no kid!! It was just a fun topic, or so I thought... I truly apologize if in the event I over stepped my boundaries. I understand these boats are not cheap, was just wondering if they had to be so expensive, meaning, are drives really that expensive or do they just have us by the shot hairs, same for motors etc...

I've stated in every post it was just my opinion !

Rick

I would love that, however, Im in Dallas and there is no builders that I'm aware of. But I fully understand your point, and appreciate the comment.

Rick

I get the point y'all are making about bats, and clubs and how nothing is cheap. I was just wondering if they had to be so expensive!

I'm in the same game of life as the rest of you, forced to pay more than something is worth and be ok with that. I was not trying to imply that things don't cost, rather do they have to cost so much.
If you read my first post, it was presented as a question, never a statement of fact!

Rick

I was in the defense industry. We joked we could give the military the equipment for free and still make money selling them repair parts.
ed

OK Everyone, say this to yourself about ten times...........

"Fun is cheap.................at any price"


Anybody feel better now :)

Check out this link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Tasmania.html

as much as i agree with you and question how a 500hp motor costs $25k, bottom line is if the builders are screwing us they are really bad at it beause most dont seem to make money or go under.

in my biz a standard paint job on a car might be 3k but if you really want it nice its going to require 4 times the labor and will cost$10k plus.

[QUOTE=4bus;3836553]

And BTW, the manufacture does not pay the retail price for the merc power.

FYI the manufactures do not get deals on Merc packages. Most of the time the cost is passed on to the customer with very little mark up.

Just doing some thinking... Why are car motors so much less, come with long warranties and don't need near as much maintenance, aren't boat motors the same, just have a few tweaks to make them marine?

I know a crate motor brand new is no where near the cost of a new boat motor!

Just a thought.....

Rick

try and run a car/light truck motor on a 4500 rpm + long run
I'm sure you will be disapointed when it fails quickly
automotive motors do not see 5000 rpm in there whole life as much as a performance marine engine does in one outing

think of it like jewelry, buy it for 3k but when you want to sell its worth $750.

its because there is no real competition for merc out there.free enterprises and capitalism at its best.

we buy 150 plus salvage cars a year and the fees are about $500 on a $3000 car, same answer as above less and less competition. what the f do they do to earn $500?

I understand that, but aren't they close to the same is what I was wondering... I know there are differences, but close? Is there 10k or more in adtl parts for a marine motor...Im no expert, and this is just a question...


Rick

Not sure if I agree, the "big dollar" motors, YES. But, aren't most Merc "black" motors based an Automotive "crate" motors from GM that are marinized? The black motors that I have seen apart didn't look fundamentally different from regular automotive motors.

I thought that's why warranties were voided when used for marine application..



Rick

I guess you could ask the same question about cars. I read in the DuPont registry where a guy paid 6 Million bucks for a McLaren F-1! When New they sold for about 850,000 (IF you could get one) how can there POSSIBLY be that much technology in a car? Remember it's NOT 40 ft long, single engine/drive, no "cabin" etc,etc,etc.

The one marine part that DOES boggle my mind is props, I don't care what kind of material or R&D is utilized I cannot fathom how 2 pieces of metal 30" in diameters can cost THOUSANDS of dollars?

You typed my mind, I was just looking at the for sale section on here.... Wow! All I can say on some props..... These high priced cars however, don't need serviced every 25 hrs, don't get 2 mpg motors freshened up etc.. Seems like these 500k+ boats just keep attacking your pockets..

Still no luck on the new boat yet ?



Rick

A clutch re and re on that McLaren is 60K, brake job is almost 30K, tune ups are 10K minimum, and unlike Merc motors there probably aren't a dozen places locally who will (or can) repair it. )-:

Not to mention insurance, YIKES!!

I am still shopping, I moved my cottage this year, which ended up costing about 10 times more than I thought! LOL

Have my heart set on an Outerlimits, but, will probably buy a bigger Baja or Fountain and then save some more bank before biting the bullet.

I guess I can check the Mcaren off of my Christmas list... OUCH! .. Probably why they never drive them!!

Best of luck on the boat, I'm surrounded by Boat shops so let me know if something grabs you attention in my area will go check it out for ya...

Rick

Thanks Rick! I appreciate it, and Likewise!

Merry Christmas to you and your family, best of luck in 2013!

You're not too familiar w/ the development tests then for automotive.....which are for more strenuous than what marine guys are doing and ran flat out for days on end. They are also expected to be warrantied for 50 to 100k. However the volumes are usually much higher to amortize costs.

I take the LSA vs merc racing, both are low volume, decent power. You pay way more for the Merc, not sure why sometimes other than less competition.

Same to you and yours!!


Rick

You will have alot better chance finding parts for a 502/550hp NA motor than you will for a Merc Racing 525efi!...thats if you can find someone to put a scanner on it for your so you can find out whats wrong with it to begin with.

+100

+100

:food-smiley-007: :lolhit::eekdrop:

Because they r fun and having fun isn't cheap!

i know from my industry (harley davidson) the stuff the test at talladega and arizona is set up perfectly not assembly line motors, built by engineers
early twin cam chain tensioners went over 100k
in the early 2000's i replaced them as early as 25k total failure
when was the last time you held your car/truck at wfo for 10+ miles?

EPA permits, regulations, hazzardous materials...but the huge profit margin for builders. I heard if you buy a new Outerlimits, Fiore has you picked up in your backyard in the company helicopter, taken to the airport to board their G8, and whisked away to Rhoade island to sign the contract while sipping Champagne and eating cavier. Hell When you buy a new beak,,,scratch that, they made so much money on those Reggie went belly up

That's is flippin funny!!

A few years ago my grandpa picked up a boat that had a seized 4.3 in it. I bought a 1995 S10 truck for $500. I sold off the tranny for $300, and got $300 for the remainder. So I made $100 and got him a 4.3 engine. I was nervous about using the auto engine in the boat. I ordered brass freeze plugs and mercruiser head gaskets. I pulled the motor apart to do the swap and the gaskets were identical. The only difference between the merc and the truck motor was the freeze plugs. I am willing to bet the cam specs were slightly different too. But I figured close enough.

I've read lots of post of people doing this, That is what makes me wonder how one is so expensive, and the other so resonabe. There may be a few differences, but I doubt 15k in differance!

Opinion!

Rick

Just wondering... Are we the only country building custom boats..i've been lots of places and have seen cars and trucks I've never seen before, never a boat.



Rick

Just do some google searches and you can find some very striking powerboats overseas. Back in the 80's when all the luxury tax greed started up by the politicians there were many boat builders in the U.S. that left because the market or their business was hurt. Our own govt is killing the thriving luxuries here for their push to either have party control or control of the people. Sorry, hated to get political here but it is the truth.

I have a 91, 7.4L 330hp Mercury Marine BBC tore down in my shop right now. The stamped steel trash and cast internals of this engine are cheap junk in comparison to the power that is in any HO motor or marine 500HP or more. The stock stuff is cheap cast, which is what most automotive engines are, but in the marine performance engines the oil system built as dry sump is huge $$$$$$ compared to a wet sump pump. The forged crank, rods and pistons compared to the cast junk is very $$$$$$ and as the power goes up the fuel system, cooling and exhaust all has to change to power it up, keep it from overheating and reverting. These products are mostly made from high grade materials if not mostly stainless for longevity and survival of the elements and marine rigor. By the way this is the basic explanation of the cost difference in diesel and gas engines too; cast vs forged.

Boats stay on top of the water by displacement but a car's weight sets on suspension. The difference here is that the displacement is a constant load on the engine of a boat where the suspension or weight does not lug a car engine the same way. For this reason the internals of a performance power boat that is going to live and not detonate it'self apart will need to be forged material of high quality and those parts are $$$$$$ in comparison.

Buy some epoxy or resin in some small amount and see how much it costs. Now figure that price by the thousands of pounds needed to mold a boat hull, $$$$$$$$. There is a variation among builders of chemical uses and qualities in an effort to cut business costs but it all goes into the price. Of course all that has been mentioned before in business, marketing and research goes into the price. Notice how it works with pharmaceutical companies, there are some similarities here too.

Slap a big name like Fred Keikahfer ?? spelling?? and others in the design and build consultation and there is some cost past on too.

I don't purport to have all the answers but these costs are real and one gets what they pay for in this arena of boat building.

The only thing that is the same between the car and boat engine is the application design for parts and gaskets. Once an engine is marinized all the stuff inside is completely different.

I have been in the Automotive Research and Development for one of the big three for the past 6 years, and I must say most of you guys are way off. If you even knew what some of these motors go through in development you would be absolutely astonished. I think most of the public and forums are completely ignorant on most of these practices, and the big three keeps most of these tests under high security because in reality no one really needs to know what we do.

But for some to throw out "Ideas" that they have as to why a marine engine is better is just assaine. My best guess for why Marine engines are more expensive isn't exactly for R&D, actually quite opposite. These engines are built with the best of parts so they don't break while OEM engines are built cheap then tested to verify they will withstand the torture that many people subject them to.

One more instance you must look at is just in engines, most engines do not go bad or wear out bad until around 200k, and within that cycle it is mostly the parts around that fail.

Just something to think about, and I could go further and tell some stories of what some of these engines are subjected to, in which as I have already said, most would be amazed to say the least.

I'd glad this was brought up. Automotive engines Get beat to hell in testing. They are held wide open under load for hours. (some times days) Ls1's engines were run wide open for 520 hours! Most Marine engines will never see this level of testing.