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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunrocket24 (Post 3886142)

:lolhit: I remember that now! Classic, going to have to try and find the movie on DVD today!

LOL. I keep telling the gf I am going to find it and make her watch it. Like I do other 80's movies. Damn kids! :evilb:

rlj676 might work for GM but he doesn't even wash his. How's that patina workin for ya Rick? Hahahaha...

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Originally Posted by Too Stroked (Post 3885926)

Ever heard of the former GM / Toyota joint venture in California called NUMMI? You might want to talk to the GM (union) employees who went to Japan to learn Toyota production techniques. They went in every bit as hard a--ed as you. They came back with nothing but admiration for the Japanese. GM learned a ton from Toyota in the venture and uses Toyota production methods in every single one of their factories - as does Ford and Chrysler. When GM went bankrupt, the joint venture was dissolved.

And BTW, building 95% of the volume with less people is called a "productivity advantage" in business terms. Taking more people to build the same number of vehicles is not something any businessman would be proud of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatskin (Post 3885932)

hmmmm ... Non-Union Toyota employees are 3x more productive than UAW/GM employees?

and/or ... UAW/GM are 3x more wasteful/featherbedded than Toy?

and/or ... (C)

That sounds about right.

Me? I drive a pre-industrial Rover with an Italian Diesel Engine, a Tata Jaguar and a Vauxhall roller-skate size station wagon that is not powerful enough to pull the hat off your head, but is ... Green.

Talk about missing the point. Toyota employs over 300k globally, GM less than 250k. The point is clearly that they employ fewer Americans because their design/finance/R&D is predominately in Japan, just as GM's is here.

If you want to see plant efficiency, look up the Harbor report each year. Domestics do just fine in efficiency of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3886163)

I'm going back to comment on all of your "facts and links" I will be sure to use the same abusive language, insults, and name calling that you have used to anyone that does not see things "your way" or buy what you want. It seems that you are saving America all on your own, and we are simply impeding the process with our ignorance. How dare we as consumers buy what we think we should own. We should all contact a true patriot, like yourself, to make our buying decisions for us, because surely us plane ticket buying no minds are not qualified to make purchases on our own.

One of many interesting quotes from your article above

"We really do welcome foreign competition," he says. "We certainly welcome foreign direct investment, and when Americans get a job working for a foreign automaker, that’s great for the community."

You only see one side of the article. Sure GM employs more US than anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that buying a Toyota Tundra made in TX does more for American WORKERS than buying an Equinox, Impala, or Camaro made in Canada. You logic insists that when I buy one GM car I am buying all the cars made by all the people. I have not purchased a Toyota that was not on the US made list, I purchased one made in TX by John Williams.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/cont...db-autos.shtml

Try to look passed your own ignorance and bias and see the big picture. The world has changed, quit acting like a baby! As a consultant helping my customers I always see two types of workers. One will be willing to do and try anything to make more money, the other makes excuses and cries "no fair" and spends his day being negative and unproductive, and they cant be helped, just fired. You definitely remind me of the latter.

So you can dish it out but can't take it? I am clearly biased, but far from ignorant. How on earth could actually understanding in minute detail global supply chain, regulations, and product development process be more ignorant than some random towing 15k lbs w/ a half ton claiming to know what's "more American". Get over yourself.

So how many Americans worked on your Tundra? Who designed it, who is the treasury employee dealing w/ currency, who sourced it, who keeps the books on it? You do not know where the work is done. How many do so on a Silverado, one built in Indiana or Mexico? So much of the work of making a car is done years before the first one is seen, so saying it was built somewhere means it employed more than a car designed here but built in Canada is short sighted. There are 30k white collar folks at GM working on those cars, you think there's no chance that more than 3k (typical plant volume) worked on the Equinox? So I guess my contribution to that car is less than a line worker? So my point stands, you don't know what you are talking about, but post everything as fact.

You act like a vehicle line in and of itself, you don't buy a Tundra, you buy a Toyota. Without all of them there is none of them. They are not independent operations.

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Originally Posted by POWERPLAY J (Post 3886342)

Washin a truck is for suckers. My dirt is a protective layer!:lolhit:

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Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3886192)

I wanted to respond to all of your biased posts, but honestly I really do not have the time. Instead I will just summarize.

First off, you keep talking down at everyone including me that has an opinion that differs from yours. Calling us "experts, Einsteins" implies that you are in fact the expert because you have a precious MBA and happen to WORK for one of the companies that sell cars....but you're not biased, you just happen to be smarter than all of us "ticket buyers" as you so kindly put it.

Looks to me that all your MBA gave you was an extended vocabulary to stroke your own narcissistic ego, it didn't make you any smarter. It did however make you a great internet voice to defend the greedy blue collar co-workers that your company employs, seeing that most of them can barely read or write.

Not many people that I can say have generated hate from me on the internet. But the insults from you and Mr IROC (cracks me up, iroc LOL) have indeed got to me. Showing that you can't get your point across without name calling, or using inaccurate unwarranted insults just defines your both as childish BIGOTS.

What a great world you live in, when you can finger point your companies failures at people that won't buy your product. Talk down at them and call them names, because they don't buy from you?? Can you imagine if the rest of the world was like that? Hell Fountain would still be in business but it is our fault for not buying everything they made right? Had nothing to do with checks and balances, Sounds more like dictatorship there, Hitler. I'm sure you guys all sat around your engineering offices blaming the bankruptcy on people not "buying American" it is their fault, not yours right? And now finally, after decades of pushing out substandard products, based on a name built from building superior products, you are now adjusting and bring quality up. Excuse me that I am not in line to congratulate you with a purchase of the vehicle that I don't have a lot of confidence in.

Better get back to looking at yourself in the mirror, or maybe take your *north American Gm for a ride down to the store, stand on a soap box, hold old your MBA and yell at every so called "jap scrap" that drive by. Surely that will increase sales for a company that was forced to bankruptcy by greed, poor management, and bigotry.

You still don't get it. I didn't insult anyone for buying a Toyota. I said buying something because it suits you is great. I said that is actually honest, and don't intend to insult anyone for buying what they want. I insult the lies you post claiming Toyota (or similar) somehow is better for this economy than a domestic and back it up with facts. You keep spinning like a standard troll with UAW insults, etc. There are reasons beyond just "greed" that have caused things to go as they have, and it is related to how foreign governments have created an unfair advantage. I laid it out, and you have skipped it or didn't get it. You know it all already.

I'm not in sales, but I'm also not into letting people post lies like have popped up on here. I know how this works and don't mind posting what I know, someone with an open mind may learn something. Einsteins think they know everything about something they know nothing and keep going on ......sound familiar?

What's funny is the rest of the world supports their auto industry, and insults foreign companies, or flat out doesn't let them in (Japan/Korea) and you imply that is what GM has done? You are so out of touch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3886300)

I don't own a Honda? Trying to find the relevance in your post???

Jap cars also have thier problems!:hijack:

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Originally Posted by Greatguy66 (Post 3886464)

Jap cars also have thier problems!:hijack:

Oh, ya I guess they probably do.

I also do not own a jap car

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlj676 (Post 3886355)

The difference between you and I, is I am defending MY purchase, and my opinion is based on my past OWNERSHIP of all vehicles I have spoken of, real world experience. Sure you didn't take well to the information about "made in the USA" I was sharing, but the more I read I the more confused I am. Sending me links from a righty fascist website doesn't really help the cause btw. I will agree that all may not be exactly as I saw it, but it is also not nearly as grim of a picture you paint it, your personal interests being set to the side of course.

You are trying to tell the country what you think they should buy, based on the opinion you have generated working for one of the manufactures. Your conflict of interest alone makes you an non credible source, never mind your insatiable ego.

You'll never convince me to buy what you want me to buy, and I will never convince you that global car companies building plants here is a good thing, so why waste the energy?

In sorry if my comments have offended you or anyone else on this site that is employed by the big 3. Gm and Chrysler/fiat are making a strong comeback. The new gm vehicles are very attractive and look to be a huge inprovement in quality over just a few years ago. I don't wish for the traditional American car companies to go away, I just want them to stop whining and win back the market through value and quality, not by dictatorship and crying foul. It's business, not the 3rd playground. Ford would be a good example of remaining competitive in the market without sending jobs to Canada and Mexico.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3886635)

We're getting somewhere maybe.....

I have been pretty clear, I don't care what you buy, I haven't once said "buy this". I care when you buy foreign and repeat propaganda claiming it is better for the country when all evidence clearly shows it isn't. Like it, buy it, don't rationalize, particularly with stuff that just isn't true.

GM isn't whining, I am telling you the story of how things are what they are. As you can see, it's pretty complex and wouldn't make much of a commercial the avg American could follow. There is so much more than most people know, and most of it is other countries (Japan, Korea, China) doing dirty **** to give their companies an edge, and edge that led to what has happened over the past 30 years. There's nothing that can change it, but it might give some insight into how things aren't as they seem, it isn't just "incompetence" that collapsed everything.

Further, this idea the big 3 keep sending out jobs while others feverishly add them is wrong. Just look up something before posting how everything GM is made in Mexico and Toyota all here, it's false. For the record GM/Ford/Chysler have been adding tons of jobs since 2008. GM reopened Orion to build sub-compacts in the US, the only people making them here. Meanwhile the transplants keep expanding in Mexico more than the US. Taken from the web:
"By comparison, in just the past seven months Mexico has won $4.3 billion in commitments from automakers for new factories. Audi, Honda and Mazda are all building new plants; Nissan will spend $2 billion in a bid to eventually build 2 million vehicles a year in the country. It's not just foreign automakers: Ford, Mexico's largest vehicle exporter, will spend $1.3 billion updating its plant to build the new Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ. GM, which builds more cars and trucks in Mexico than any other automaker, and Chrysler have also spent hundreds of millions of dollars upgrading factories for new models."

Note, Ford/GM plants are existing ones mentioned, not new. GM builds the most cars in pretty much most countries in the world sans Germany and Japan.

Rlj676 can't lie. He loved the Ferarri I showed him. :evilb: