The adventure of my tub is now over
07-22-2002, 11:35 AM
#21
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Your right, you need a break. Cover the thing up and forget about it for a week or so. Then with a clear mind go back to work.
If the engines must come out to change the starters so be it. When the engines are out take the starters to a starter rebuild shop. Any industrialized city should have one. Do you think all the beat up commercial deisel trucks in your area spend 1K for a new starter. They dont they have them rebuilt.
Talk to your engine builder and ask him to run both engines on a test stand. If he builds engines he knows what is necessary or someone who has one. Explain to him that its such a job to remove and install engines in your boat that you really need to know everything is running perfectly before you reinstall. Insist on running them out of the boat. Im sure he knows all the trouble youve had and he should be sympathetic to your needs. Let him fire them up break-in the cams and set the timing.
Then put them back in when you feel up to it. On most boats you can install the engines with all the accessories still on. On my last boat all I had to do once the engine was dropped in place was one water hose, one fuel line, two battery cables, one harness connector, and power steering hoses. If not just take your time and do it right and do it yourself. Have someone who is familar with marine exhaust check out your mods to the risers to make sure you are not causing another problem you havent thought of. Just because it seems like what you did should not hurt anything it may be unbalancing the water flow and causing the water ingestion problem you are having. Boats are way different than cars. You are learning every step of the way. The lessons are hard and expensive but you will get it right.
But your right YOU NEED A BREAK and you are way ahead of the game because you realize it. Take some time off and it will all seem better.
Ron
If the engines must come out to change the starters so be it. When the engines are out take the starters to a starter rebuild shop. Any industrialized city should have one. Do you think all the beat up commercial deisel trucks in your area spend 1K for a new starter. They dont they have them rebuilt.
Talk to your engine builder and ask him to run both engines on a test stand. If he builds engines he knows what is necessary or someone who has one. Explain to him that its such a job to remove and install engines in your boat that you really need to know everything is running perfectly before you reinstall. Insist on running them out of the boat. Im sure he knows all the trouble youve had and he should be sympathetic to your needs. Let him fire them up break-in the cams and set the timing.
Then put them back in when you feel up to it. On most boats you can install the engines with all the accessories still on. On my last boat all I had to do once the engine was dropped in place was one water hose, one fuel line, two battery cables, one harness connector, and power steering hoses. If not just take your time and do it right and do it yourself. Have someone who is familar with marine exhaust check out your mods to the risers to make sure you are not causing another problem you havent thought of. Just because it seems like what you did should not hurt anything it may be unbalancing the water flow and causing the water ingestion problem you are having. Boats are way different than cars. You are learning every step of the way. The lessons are hard and expensive but you will get it right.
But your right YOU NEED A BREAK and you are way ahead of the game because you realize it. Take some time off and it will all seem better.
Ron
07-22-2002, 11:52 AM
#23
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Ok, we all know that even a stock heavy GM starter will turn this engine over. GM put these starters on alot more burly engines than these. If they are turning too slowly, then I'd start looking for reasons why they are not getting full amperage. #4 battery cables are too small. If you have runs over 10' you should step up to 1-0 wires. It makes a night and day difference. Believe me! Night and day! Also corroded and loose connections will play havock! How do the cable terminals look? Are they frayed? Cheesy looking? If so then they are proably adding a significant amount of resistance to the circuit.
If the starter just seems to hang up and stall, then I'd be looking at timing as it's proably too far advanced.
If the starter just seems to hang up and stall, then I'd be looking at timing as it's proably too far advanced.
07-22-2002, 01:11 PM
#24
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I agree with Cord, stock starter can do it, get em rebuilt, check for problems.
And I also think it's a good idea to take a break, take next weekend off, kick back with the wife, have some cocktails and enjoy at least one weekend of the summer. Then Monday; jump right back in.
I had a summer like that the first year I had my boat. I haven't even got mine in the water this year.
DS
And I also think it's a good idea to take a break, take next weekend off, kick back with the wife, have some cocktails and enjoy at least one weekend of the summer. Then Monday; jump right back in.
I had a summer like that the first year I had my boat. I haven't even got mine in the water this year.
DS
07-22-2002, 01:43 PM
#25
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So you are sure the starters are at least part of the problem.
These starters should be plenty for your application and when in good condition will be fine. Do you know that they were in good condition when the engines were pulled? Were they tested or known to be good? When I had my engine out I didn't want to take any chances and bought what I felt was the best starter available (Tilton Marine). Be very cautious of the cheap high torque gear reduction starters that you may find from Summitt and Jegs. Many of these are made in China and India and last about as long as PepBoys and Autozone lifetime warranty $20.00 starters. They will replace them every year until you finally buy a good one. Besides who wants to pull a motor to replace a starter?
Todd
These starters should be plenty for your application and when in good condition will be fine. Do you know that they were in good condition when the engines were pulled? Were they tested or known to be good? When I had my engine out I didn't want to take any chances and bought what I felt was the best starter available (Tilton Marine). Be very cautious of the cheap high torque gear reduction starters that you may find from Summitt and Jegs. Many of these are made in China and India and last about as long as PepBoys and Autozone lifetime warranty $20.00 starters. They will replace them every year until you finally buy a good one. Besides who wants to pull a motor to replace a starter?
Todd
07-22-2002, 04:09 PM
#26
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Dude, you can run an engine sitting right on the shop floor. Team Chaos (which consists of myself, Crazyhorse, Dyno, SuperV, and several other "honerable mention" OSO'ers) has done this MANY times. It's how we do our cam break ins. A couple of good jack stands uner the front engine mounts, and a 4x4 under the rear mounts and the thing will go no where. I put nearly an hour on my motor using this set up.
And get the engine builder involved. He should help you out if he's worth anything.
And get the engine builder involved. He should help you out if he's worth anything.
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07-22-2002, 04:51 PM
#28
WAIT - WAIT --- You increased the compression and never degreed the cam in??? I bet he never did a valve to piston clearence test either did he. If the answer is no then I bet you have bent valves and 0 valve to piston clearence. It is common for a cam to be off 2 or 3 degrees and that is enough to cause clearence problems. BEEN THERE DONE THAT. do a compression test and then call your engine builder. I don't know of any engine builder that doesn't degree in a cam on a performance motor.
I wish you lived closer because I would donate time to the cause so you could get it on the water.
Like I tell everone -- Learn how to do it yourself and it will be done right and you will get more enjoyment out of it also.
I do 99% of all the work on everything mechanical or electrical or on the structure of the boat.
I wish you lived closer because I would donate time to the cause so you could get it on the water.
Like I tell everone -- Learn how to do it yourself and it will be done right and you will get more enjoyment out of it also.
I do 99% of all the work on everything mechanical or electrical or on the structure of the boat.
Last edited by Tinkerer; 07-22-2002 at 05:05 PM.
07-22-2002, 05:01 PM
#29
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The cam timing is precisely why I think the builder should fire the engine. If its a problem then who better to bend the valves. If its not you still have him on board for the cam break in.
The other fact that should not be ignored is that Jay modified the stock exhaust risers and both of the engines have ingested water. I know he did this to solve the water ingestion problem but something could be wrong.
Ron
The other fact that should not be ignored is that Jay modified the stock exhaust risers and both of the engines have ingested water. I know he did this to solve the water ingestion problem but something could be wrong.
Ron
