Lake Cumberland and the Blame Game
09-11-2013, 12:22 PM
#221
Registered
I am curious about what safety requirements Brad and Jeff had on? Did the have 5 point harnesses on? Is that a requirement at those speeds. We shouldn't treat the safety of this sport any different then safety of other sports. On the 1/4 mile the faster you go the more safety you need, helmet, 5 point harness, roll cage etc etc. My question is was there any safety measures that they could have taking so that they could of walked away. I mean come on 43 stock cars going over 200 miles an hour and they walk away, top fuel and they walk away, these cats should be no different.
I love the sport, we all make bad decisions in life. I'd hate to see speed limits. Boyne Thunder had Marshall boats that were flagged and there job was to warn everyday boaters that might not know what's going on. Does LCPR have these. I believe there mostly volunteers.
I love the sport, we all make bad decisions in life. I'd hate to see speed limits. Boyne Thunder had Marshall boats that were flagged and there job was to warn everyday boaters that might not know what's going on. Does LCPR have these. I believe there mostly volunteers.
I think you have to start w/ the basics & until those are applied 100% succesfully none of the other suggestions are going to have much of an impact.
A Fellow OSO member whose screenname escapes me has a signature that has always left a lasting impression on me.
It Says "With Speed Comes Responsibility"
I don't think there's any better way of putting it. I myself have been guilty of taking those words for granted a time or 2. Thankfully no one was hurt but I'll tell you w/o a doubt that saying is the first thing that comes to mind when I've made a poor decision or took a chance I shouldn't have.
09-11-2013, 12:25 PM
#222
Registered
How about a “pace helicopter” for the extreme class of poker runners?
Having participated in poker runs for over 20 years and in recent years being involved as an organizer ( FMO ), I know how much fun they can be and how much enjoyment I have experienced with my offshore boats and friends. This week I have been giving a lot of thought to this sport that we all love and want see safe for participants and spectators alike. I have watched every video of the run that everyone is talking about and here is what struck me. In the video that shows the pace boat leading the group for several minutes before the flag was dropped, they seemed to be running at a nice clip and all was pretty orderly. Nothing unsafe about that and seemed like a good start with everything under control with the boats finding there lane as best I could see from that video perspective. As soon as the flag dropped, it was balls to wall and the drag race was on for the first card stop. No control, and it was every man to himself. Actually this is pretty well the way it is on most of the many runs I have attended so from that standpoint, is no different. So how do we get some badly needed control back into these events? I will float this idea and you guys can embrace it, suggest ways to improve it or tell me I’m nuts. LOL What I am about to suggest is for events that take place on rivers / lakes, enclosed waterways with lots of spectator boats and may not necessarily apply on the open waters of the Great Lakes, Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf of Mexico where there is lots of room for everyone and where I thought “offshore boats” belong.
I’m told an R-44 will fly up to approximately 150 MPH. Have an educated observer who would be a seasoned, safety conscious poker runner or racer in the helicopter ( lets call him the “ safety officer “). His sole job is to watch the waters ahead, instructing the pilot a safe speed and coarse he should maintain given the conditions on the waters below. Not a a photography heli ( sorry Jay ), but only a designated pace / safety heli. Under no circumstances are the boats allowed to pass the pace helicopter at any time during the run. Disqualification and bannishment would be appropriate for anyone violating the rule. ( Organizers need to get tougher on enforcement ). If the waters are open ahead as observed by the safety officer and instructs the pilot to fly say 100 / 120 / 140? mph or whatever speed is determined to be safe, that is the maximum speed the poker run fleet can run. Lets say the safety officer sees a boat(s) in the the middle of the coarse ahead, he then instructs the pilot to slow to a safe speed and the poker run fleet is required to slow accordingly untill past the hazard. The situation could even call for a complete stop, but stop they would. Once past the area of concern, the heli and following poker run fleet resume a safe operating speed. The safety officer could then radio patrol boats to deal with the stray boat(s) prior to the start of the next group of boats in the poker run.
I expect the fastest cat owners will not embrace my idea as it puts restrictions on their speed and to them I would suggest there is always the open waters of the Great Lakes, Altantic, Pacific, Gulf and various shootouts which may be more appropriate waters to run their extreme class of boats.
We have heard of calls to have safety helicopters follow the fleet but in my opinion that is too late. Lets put one of them up front and get some control back into this sport that we want to see continue in a safe way for all concerned. Just an idea that may be worth exploring.
Bob
Having participated in poker runs for over 20 years and in recent years being involved as an organizer ( FMO ), I know how much fun they can be and how much enjoyment I have experienced with my offshore boats and friends. This week I have been giving a lot of thought to this sport that we all love and want see safe for participants and spectators alike. I have watched every video of the run that everyone is talking about and here is what struck me. In the video that shows the pace boat leading the group for several minutes before the flag was dropped, they seemed to be running at a nice clip and all was pretty orderly. Nothing unsafe about that and seemed like a good start with everything under control with the boats finding there lane as best I could see from that video perspective. As soon as the flag dropped, it was balls to wall and the drag race was on for the first card stop. No control, and it was every man to himself. Actually this is pretty well the way it is on most of the many runs I have attended so from that standpoint, is no different. So how do we get some badly needed control back into these events? I will float this idea and you guys can embrace it, suggest ways to improve it or tell me I’m nuts. LOL What I am about to suggest is for events that take place on rivers / lakes, enclosed waterways with lots of spectator boats and may not necessarily apply on the open waters of the Great Lakes, Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf of Mexico where there is lots of room for everyone and where I thought “offshore boats” belong.
I’m told an R-44 will fly up to approximately 150 MPH. Have an educated observer who would be a seasoned, safety conscious poker runner or racer in the helicopter ( lets call him the “ safety officer “). His sole job is to watch the waters ahead, instructing the pilot a safe speed and coarse he should maintain given the conditions on the waters below. Not a a photography heli ( sorry Jay ), but only a designated pace / safety heli. Under no circumstances are the boats allowed to pass the pace helicopter at any time during the run. Disqualification and bannishment would be appropriate for anyone violating the rule. ( Organizers need to get tougher on enforcement ). If the waters are open ahead as observed by the safety officer and instructs the pilot to fly say 100 / 120 / 140? mph or whatever speed is determined to be safe, that is the maximum speed the poker run fleet can run. Lets say the safety officer sees a boat(s) in the the middle of the coarse ahead, he then instructs the pilot to slow to a safe speed and the poker run fleet is required to slow accordingly untill past the hazard. The situation could even call for a complete stop, but stop they would. Once past the area of concern, the heli and following poker run fleet resume a safe operating speed. The safety officer could then radio patrol boats to deal with the stray boat(s) prior to the start of the next group of boats in the poker run.
I expect the fastest cat owners will not embrace my idea as it puts restrictions on their speed and to them I would suggest there is always the open waters of the Great Lakes, Altantic, Pacific, Gulf and various shootouts which may be more appropriate waters to run their extreme class of boats.
We have heard of calls to have safety helicopters follow the fleet but in my opinion that is too late. Lets put one of them up front and get some control back into this sport that we want to see continue in a safe way for all concerned. Just an idea that may be worth exploring.
Bob
09-11-2013, 12:31 PM
#223
Registered
Platinum Member
iTrader: (-1)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the Hardware(Equipment) is fine and performing as it should, its just hardware and does what its told to do, it’s the software (people) that is broken.
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
09-11-2013, 12:37 PM
#224
Fast Singles Club
Gold Member
iTrader: (8)
I think the Hardware(Equipment) is fine and performing as it should, its just hardware and does what its told to do, it’s the software (people) that is broken.
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
09-11-2013, 12:45 PM
#225
Registered
I think the Hardware(Equipment) is fine and performing as it should, its just hardware and does what its told to do, it’s the software (people) that is broken.
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
So what are the consequences of the reckless driving we’ve been presented via video links?
Doesn’t appear any laws against stupid – and clearly some of these fast boat drivers demonstrated the inability to make a safe/ appropriate decision (Example – video evidence of Close calls, endangering people lives, etc.)
Sounds like a lot of people know who owns/drives these boats – how about shunning them? How about engine builders passing on their next repower – ALL of the reputable builders that are part of this site… All are Private companies, and have the ability to decline any job you want for any reason you want. Or if they do get their hands on some different motors, how about the shops declining to install them. Say, no thanks?
How about some public shaming? How about a few “Not welcome here” reactions at the next poker run??
Since there are not actual LAWS prohibiting reckless actions, as a boating community – why don’t we decide what behavior on the water is acceptable.
If you’ve got a friend that is known for being an ahole at your parties, how long before you stop associating with them?
09-11-2013, 12:48 PM
#226
VIP Member
As one person said if getting close to another boat pull back the throttles/slow down. Maybe slowing down from 160-180mph to 140mph then cut between to parked spectator boats is slowing down,
Now If I had a boat that fast I would sure be the first one to do all it would do,
but I've seen to many times over taking/passing another boat them never looking back and turn cut in front of ya.
condolences to the family's
Now If I had a boat that fast I would sure be the first one to do all it would do,
but I've seen to many times over taking/passing another boat them never looking back and turn cut in front of ya.
condolences to the family's
09-11-2013, 12:48 PM
#227
Registered
I find these discussions interesting... albeit I hate the events that trigger them. I know a similar "solution" was tossed around after the KW incident in regards to a device that monitors and prevents blow-overs. I know that this has met a lot of resistance, as does any complex system.... most of us still have issues placing our full trust/lives in the hands of a device that monitors pitch/yaw and would make a correction when a limit was reached. The other side of the story always exists... what if the system falsely operates and causes a stuff and an injury, etc. You hear old timers all the time blame ABS in their cars for causing an accident, etc. I keep wondering the the following, however....
My direct real world experience with cats is very limited, however I have a good understanding of how and why they work. The only way it seems to prevent blow over is to create a means of quickly releasing all/most of the tunnel pressure. Is there a solution that could be engineered to rapidly remove, or allow to swing free, a portion of the deck/top of tunnel, that could be actuated by the operator. Something where a solenoid/etc could rapidly fire and drop tunnel pressure off, yet still leave it in the operators hands. A sort of "oh sh*t" button. Of course the outcome could be a stuff or an unpleasant reentry, but it may be better than the alternative. The thing I've observed in all the recent blow over incidences is that they seem to take a relative "eternity" to happen. I rarely see a boat kite and violently flip backwards... they seem to get super light, dance and then get past the point of no return. It'd seem to me if there was a means effective enough to dump tunnel pressure they may be saveable with the average operators reaction time. Just food for thought...
My direct real world experience with cats is very limited, however I have a good understanding of how and why they work. The only way it seems to prevent blow over is to create a means of quickly releasing all/most of the tunnel pressure. Is there a solution that could be engineered to rapidly remove, or allow to swing free, a portion of the deck/top of tunnel, that could be actuated by the operator. Something where a solenoid/etc could rapidly fire and drop tunnel pressure off, yet still leave it in the operators hands. A sort of "oh sh*t" button. Of course the outcome could be a stuff or an unpleasant reentry, but it may be better than the alternative. The thing I've observed in all the recent blow over incidences is that they seem to take a relative "eternity" to happen. I rarely see a boat kite and violently flip backwards... they seem to get super light, dance and then get past the point of no return. It'd seem to me if there was a means effective enough to dump tunnel pressure they may be saveable with the average operators reaction time. Just food for thought...
09-11-2013, 12:50 PM
#228
Registered
Thread Starter
TO THE MOD SQUAD-
Out of respect to the families of those who were lost, I cordially request that this thread be either locked and/or poofed. This BS has gone to far and as the originator of the thread, I ask that this stops.
TO THE FAMILIES-
Please understand that the intent of this thread was to generate conversation in an effort to solve one of the many problems facing our sport- the Blow-over. I sincerely apologize for and pain or angst the repeated disrespect has caused.
TO THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN FINDING SOLUTIONS-
Be it regarding the rules, the speeds or the boats themselves, if anyone wants to forget how the most recent accident happened and focus purely on making our sport safer and better, please look for another thread in the near future.
TO THE PEOPLE WITH NO FILTER-
Sometimes we come across people like all of you only so we can tell the difference
Out of respect to the families of those who were lost, I cordially request that this thread be either locked and/or poofed. This BS has gone to far and as the originator of the thread, I ask that this stops.
TO THE FAMILIES-
Please understand that the intent of this thread was to generate conversation in an effort to solve one of the many problems facing our sport- the Blow-over. I sincerely apologize for and pain or angst the repeated disrespect has caused.
TO THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN FINDING SOLUTIONS-
Be it regarding the rules, the speeds or the boats themselves, if anyone wants to forget how the most recent accident happened and focus purely on making our sport safer and better, please look for another thread in the near future.
TO THE PEOPLE WITH NO FILTER-
Sometimes we come across people like all of you only so we can tell the difference
