Superchiller, intercooler real world results?
 

Anyone with personal (not my neighbors sisters friends dog walkers husband) experience with adding Superchiller?
As in.... I was running XXmph @ 6psi and after the intercooler I gained Xmph with just that change...
Real world Intake temperature differential info would be even better.

thank you

My brothers ex girlfriends brother knew a guy who bought his drugs from a guy that sold to a guy that thought about putting one on a engine once.

Does that count?

You are referring to just adding the chiller. Not "pulleying" up, just adding the restriction and cooling the charge.
This will be interesting...

The big advantage comes from being able to safely spin the blower harder.

No not just adding, same psi or even a little higher due to the cooler charge.

We need some before and after dyno sheets with the same boost and then increased boost...someone has to have been there done that...

Dan, didn't Todd put them on his sonic?

I thought 575sci is factory intercooled..

no, they are not.

Eddie any other thoughts on the subject.. horsepower gains before and after??

Is this BS or real numbers? I can see the 190* air temp being realistic without a chiller with a roots.

http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/Prod...D0068&pID=6045

I did some tests years ago with a 454 b-m 250 blower 5lb boost around 550 hp tested without chiller then installed chiller basically no power gain,we then changed the pulley to 7lb made another 25-30hp,all test we were using 93 pump gas on a superflow dyno,i think you were to install chiller and not add boost you would see gains in performance on a hot summer day,your hp loss would be less with the chiller,we use to run the 454 7.5 compression 10-12 lb boost on pump fuel using bm 250 and superchiller 700hp ,never had a problem

According to my book on supercharging, they get into some high tech scientific formulas. They give an example. If you had a setup that took in a ambient air temp of 68*, and compressed it to 7.4psi ,a compressor with 100% efficiency would net a discharge temperature of 131*. Well, we know that no such thing as a 100% efficient compressor. They say most roots blowers are 50% adiabatic efficient. With that said, the inlet air temp being 68*, would heat the intake air to 194* at 7.4psi. This formula, is almost dead nuts on what RBS superchargers claims in that link. Now, since we are talking about blower adiabatic efficiency, now you can understand why a Whipple, being a more effiecient compressor, will net cooler air charge at same boost level. Cooler air=more power. The more efficient the compressor, the cooler the charge. Im sure eddie young can tell you first hand, pound for pound of boost, a whipple will outperform a roots almost everytime.

But, that brings us back to the question. If you install a chiller, and do not change pulley's, from what ive seen, most guys do not gain power, as they lose 1-2psi. I personally think its from the restriction of airflow thru the core. If it were simply because the charge is cooler, power would go up just from bolting it on. That doesn't seem to be the case. However, if the baseline was 7psi non intercooled manifold boost, and you compare it to 7psi manifold boost intercooled, you should see a increase in power. IMO, losing 1-2psi in the manifold, will cost more power than whatever the charge temp is. Getting the manifold pressure back to where it was, is the idea. Now, you have the same manifold pressure, a cooler charge (more power than baseline), and less chance of detonation.

Im sure Eddie can enlighten us better.

You can add like 3 pounds of boost when you go to a superchiller. The smaller the air the better and the colder the air the smaller.. It;s a no brainer. You can probably go at least a half inch down on the top pully if you switch. Ihave been told you can get 50 - 75 hp amotor easily. I thonk it's worh it.

Also are you running a mercury fuel injection. or something comperable? If you are not running fuel injection you will need to plumb the whole thing seperate or your boat will idle like the choke is on ( because the coole rair) .. Mine has mif and idles perfect right of the water pump..

If you go without fuelinjection and runa whole seperate system. .it will be had to wash all the salt water out.. If you run off the stock waterpump it just stays wet in the whole cooling system ( including the chille) .. Then you can keepp it wet until you flush w no saltwater damage as well :D

Do an extensive search on here. I know in the past that someone has tested this before. And I also think that Biggus added chillers when he switched his blowers over to BDS. He had stock 575 motors. Post up for him in the Cig section. Also I believe Dustin has some kind of results testing his MOAC chillers against a Super chiller. Also if you do add any kind of chillers, DO NOT pull your water off of your main water supply. Use a set of transom pick ups or water thru the drive. Doing so will keep the fuel from going back to droplets which will load up your motors at no wake speeds.

My 3.3 top mount whipple says in bold letters to not use the main water supply for the intercooler because the intercooler is not needed @ low rpm. They must have learned that from experience because my side mount intercooler WAS plumbed through the cooling system. The boat ran ok for short idle times but would start to load up if I idled for any length of time over 5-10 minutes. As a side note the engine had champion plugs in it & my experience with champions is that they are junk in anything but a Chrysler product. Jmo Randy

you can run off the main water supply w Mercury fuel injection. Mine runs perfect and like I said . When you run salt water . the waterpump will keep water in your motor will keep your chiller wet over night, like Catalina or when you pull it out and they wont let you flush at the launch ramp ( welcome to san diego)My motors started out as 04 575's,

I figured I`d use my blow off valves for water.. they don`t open till on plane.
No salt water around here MACPro:cool-smiley-011:

Yes, our buddy has them plumbed that way. At idle , no water psi, so cooler isn't getting water. As soon as water psi hits like 6psi, pressure relief valve opens, sending water thru the core . He had high water psi to begin with, so now instead of blowing that water off and dumping overboard, he feeds his chiller with it .

mine runs 8 - 10 psi and about 2 at idle. The best part is with my set up it dumps water out the side of the boat at idle almost like the bilge is on. this keep water out of the headers. and makes "HIM" idle REALY loud :D
I just stand behind it and let my ears ring at the docks/ That's probably my favotire part of boating. That and the bj's under the deck. your set up sounds like a great Idea

you can see the water out the side here in the video. i can see what kinda shape my water pumps are in. when they are getting tired, the stream is a little intermitend and then i change em. the only thing i was thinking is maybe running the dump out the back directly on the outdrive .. that way maybe i could loose the driver showers. but i will take the drive showers off next kilo run.. should net a mile in hour without them. so im gonna leave it alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_UzaREGFAs

Mmmmm that sounds pretty frickin loud! :thankyouthankyou:

I plumb all mine with pumped water at idle and have never had any fuel puddling or loading up issues. Big blowers and big carbs
I picked up 70 hp with some 14/71 blowers, but we also added 2 more lbs of boost at the same time.
1 Lb loss of boost thru Whipple core at 17 lbs

[ATTACH=CONFIG]510532[/ATTACH] I looked and couldn't find any test, I've done without a cooler, back to back going to cooler. It pretty much takes about 1.5 psi more to achieve the same boost # using a intercooler. That's my experience using a Blower Shop Intercooler. I have pushed 7 psi no intercooler with cast iron heads, 8.1 cr, on a 580 cid with a BDS. making right at 920 hp @ 6000.
I was looking for a test I did for the Blower Shop, testing one of the cupri-nickel verses alum. not much difference.

The test in the picture is the difference between a core that was in a Blower Shop housing, that WAS NOT FROM THE BLOWER SHOP. Test 540c54. The power and torque was way down.This was a early cupri-nickel core from someone else, that sucked!!!!
Test 540c57 was the same engine with the alum core from THE BLOWER SHOP.
If I was buying intercoolers today, I would spend the $$$ and buy the coolers from Jason, COOLERMAN.

Great info Mark. Next season, I'd like to run my blowers at 7psi, non intercooled, and record the intake air temps at wot. Then, install chillers, and again record the temps at 7psi. I've heard some talk about the cores getting heat soaked on extended runs under boost, and therefore not being as effective as they appear to be on a dyno pull. I'd like to test that for myself.

So you started with say 15psi in the manifold before chiller, and ended up at 17psi in the manifold, and gained 70HP? Basically what im asking is when you say you added 2psi and the chiller, Im assuming you mean you added 2 psi of manifold boost showing on the gauge.

Good info, how long did you run that motor for?
I`d like to run a stage 4 BDS 10-71 with Dart iron heads, 8.2cr, 540ci bow tie block with an intercooler at 7-8psi and know that its a safe set up.
I plan on running a intake temp gauge before and after the intercooler to keep an eye on the intake temps on those hot days too...

Does coolerman have a web page?

Correct, we added the chiller and some overdrive at the same time. Think it was 12 to 14 lbs roughly

Gotcha. That sounds about right to me. Did the boat go faster?

http://pfintercoolers.com/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/PF-Ma...8911?ref=br_tf

Why not consider Aluminum heads instead of the intercooler?

Thanks Mark. Always great talking on the phone with you. Keep in touch!

Thanks for posting the info!


The first 3 pics here are some PF Marine Mark 6 Xtreme replacements that went under some quad 4.0 liter blowers. You can see the tubes on our core, and they will not plug up like a standard bar and plate design. In essence, our cores do not loose efficiency with time.

Also, our modified tube and fin style core has a slightly higher efficiency, so building a taller/thicker core was not needed (causes more restriction/higher pressure drop).

The last 4 pics are from other customer projects.

My 575 ran like $hit (with my whipple cooler) plumbed off the sea pump! The 575 fuel injection is not that big of an upgrade over properly done carbs, in fact it is a limiting factor in after cam upgrades. The difference you may see is warmer water temps there. Are you sure yours is plumbed off the sea pump?

I had air temps. recorded. But going back in the dyno files, I had them labeled different and I do not recall having the temps recording during the time the crappy cupri-nickel core that was being used. I just knew the numbers were way off, using that build in the past. I know the test with temp probes was done with the Blower Shop Cupri-nickel and the alum core, temps were noted and the difference between the 2 cores in power were not split by very much, if any. I know Eric @ Blower Shop sent me the cupri-nickel core to test, since they just came out with it @ that time. I know; I sent the data with the test core back.
I by far; am no expert at knowing the negatives and positives over the intercooler. I know; high inlet air temps are going to reduce power and can also lead to pistons burning up, not from detonation. But from excessive combustion chamber temps.
I feel like maybe; I side tracked a little here from the original thread.

One of the other questions was; How long did, I run this. On the dyno or in the boat?

Looking at temps; I had a probe in a spacer (Non metallic) on the blower side and used another probe in the intake manifold. You will start to see a heat sink into the intake, taking into account; block temp and oil temp splash to the bottom of intake. This test was done with my dyno cooling tower allowing 165 degrees of water temp and allowing the oil temp to be about the same.

Using the Blower Shop intercooler, I know moving as much water through the core is going to make it as efficient as possible, due to core design it would be hard to exceed a flow rate. I know Coolerman, can give the flow requirements for his cooler, as we have had a discussion on subject. His intercooler, is not going to see some of the issues we have encountered, with others.

Hey I see that one un assembled package, is from my buddy; Haxby. He better get busy and get it finished. L.O.L Mark

The water temp are cooler here believe it or not. the ocean is in the 60's most of the time and Havasu is in the 70s. I know Lake Minnetonka and back east the water in the summer gets warme that that. I run super chillers and Blower shop 250 series blowers. 7 pounds of boost . plugs look good and tons of water blowing threough the chillers at all times.chad

On my old scarab motor it made about 25 hp diff, we couldn't get the pressure up, but that was a test vs water not flowing thru the innercooler. motor made 765, I mainly did it for the chousion for detonation,There expensive now, also with all the plumbing .



[ATTACH=CONFIG]510638[/ATTACH]

Hey Strip, how much boost have you put through your iron heads on your current mills? What compression are they? I know you logged some hours on those puppies

Starting 2005 it was low 7's at 760ish,2006 turned it up maxed out low 8,4 850ish, 2010 droped exhaust seat, fresh bore,all new guts on ethonal gas, 883 around 8.8,.2012 star motor was showing some metal,it was due and ive got ADD,tore down and everything looked good, norm motor with hours, one blower had slack in it like wear in the gears, sent both for the hell of it,now have new 3.3 and with same pulleys at was over 9 and felt real good, i backed it down, and started running 93 no ethonal, had blower sealing problems and new inbetween pulleys seems to be close to the old pulley,havent ran it much this year, will reseal this winter, run with the 4.375 pulley and hopefully run the same as/close to the 8+ setting, after the new blowers and all new motor it knocked my dick it the dirt,now driving like a old lady. we ran on the dyno 2006 11.5 psi just for the dyno sheet, blower and heads/cam prob maxed out, made 911 on 112oct. I know i need heads, always did, but boat couldnt handle it anyway, the heads will be the next thing I change "if" something happens.

so say 8.4 psi,8.6cr,blower was at 314hours when ,,, so thats 314 since 2005, but also look at my thread that showed all the time,seconds,minutes at diff rpm range, Like 70% was at idle

sorry tmi

rob

Now the scarab was 12 psi on 93 at 828 7100.that was 1995