Florida repeals ethanol gas now we have E15!
 

As if E10 sucked balls enough before, how here in Mn their pushing the "new" E15 (witch there saying is safe for 2001+ vehicles) along with E30!! Ugh!
http://kstp.com/article/12303/?vid=4555966&v=1
End rant

And what do people do with pre 2001 vehicles?

FYI non-ethanol gas is being sold at local gas stations in my area (FL)..........it showed up about 4 months ago and is priced about 40 cents a gallon more than E10. Both stations I saw it at were on the same major road and on the way to the biggest boat ramp in the area (6 launch ramps in one location). One station makes sense, nice modern station with wide access............the other is a tiny station that even empty of other cars/customers would still be a struggle to get any boat over 20 ft into. With other cars it would be a no go!

Buy one of these, so we can run anything we find in the garbage. Should be E10, 15, 30, 85, 95, ect. safe :bigbird:

http://uncrate.com/p/2010/11/deloran...hine-drive.jpg

Leaded race gas? Lolz

Try encouraging your local station to carry non ethanol gasoline or install a tank for that use. They will be overwhelmed by how much they sell after the word gets around. We have three stations in our area and the one with 93 has to have their tank filled 3 times per week. It sells like candy.

Honestly Every performance motor I own is E85, The only reason its not on the boat is availability on the water. The stuff is amazing. If the US got there act together and made it out of sugar cane (like Brazil does) Guess what region of the world we don't need oil from anymore? but we make from corn which is less efficient, all political bs.

Put it in your boat and let it set for a year or so and see if you still like E85. Contact the small engine repair shops and just ask them about ethanol. My 38 Fountain that I use only 3-4 times a year on Poker Runs had particles like sand in the fuel and separator from E85. I hate it also when the government MAKES you use something that they never tested fully before making it law. Just my 2*cents

I let sit in the race car over the winter no problems. Brazil has been ethanol only for almost 40 years! I do understand what happens when something that runs gasoline only then switches to ethanol. Ethanol cleans all the gasoline deposits and clogs filters etc. The root cause is gasoline deposits. Realize that E100 ethanol is nothing more than 200 proof moonshine. Everyone complains about all the US resources in the middle east, How we spend money that then gets funneled to people that want to do us harm. Everyone talks all this "buy american" (well not so much anymore) but then every day millions are spent making arab countries richer, and funding a war against ourselves. (really how dumb is that) Government does nothing, people complain, government tries to transition to oil independence, people complain. Between ethanol (for gas powered engines) and natural gas (diesel powered engines) the technology is here right now to gain oil independence but a lot of people stand to loose a lot of money so that won't happen. I'm happy to buy cheap 105 octane fuel, and to know I supported a farmer and not a terrorist. sorry for the thread hijack LOL, End Rant.

Professor speed, I see your just down 94 form me. The E15 and 30 stuff is right in your back yard now.

As for performance and e85, yes it is Pump race gas. We ran it in our Supra's & DSM's. 3 big draw backs were our Aero A1000 pumps wouldn't last 2 years, MPG's were pretty much nothing, in fact one guy (Dan) up here in St. Cloud running E85 only got 75-90 miles a tank! And according to Shane's (dyno master at DB performance) sampling, the only time we (in MN) get E85 is in August. The rest of the time is was any were from 60-80

I use the 10 ethanol in my truck but only no ethanol in motorcycles,boat and lawn mower. Too many people have warned me. If possible don't use it it creates a lot of problems.

The blend depends on how fast its selling, to switch from winter blend. I have never used the Aeromotive anything I hear problems with a1000 even on gas if you don't use a voltage reducer. MPG can suck but a lot of that is in the tune. e85 tends to have a large tuning window so even when rich it does ok but, mpg tanks. its really just simple science, Shane tuned my old 240sx back when he was at Elite and ran great. He tuned a buddies Cts-V recently and he had it redynoed at MAP and cut the run short because the the car was so lean, its been back to DB a few times trying to get it right. E30 is a very interesting fuel going forward, If an engine were set up to optimize it there would be basically no penalty. you would gain 1-3% power just because of the fuels properties, but compression could be upped, to again gain power, intern displacement could be reduced to counteract the mpg loss. This is basically what Brazil has done. Imagine just 30% less oil imported from the middle east. There are some down sides to moving away from gasoline but in the end I believe its a better fuel and better for our country.

We have a local chain that is a big Bio proponent. Same propaganda, E15 is safe for 2001+
Twice they have run $1.059 / gal promos with a local radio station.
I hit them for 70 gal each time BUT both times I filled our 2002 Toyota Avalon, it threw a code with in 10 miles. E15 compatible B.S.!
This last time I had recently cleaned my TB and Mas AF as well as had a full fuel system clean out in an attempt to solve a knock sensor code. Full scan of trim levels etc all within good specs.
After clearing the A/F code; diluted 2-1 with pure; no more A/F codes :)
I'll take his cheap promo fuel, it told me what I needed to know - IT WILL NOT WORK! Then mix 10 gal for $25 savings with 5 gal for $1.75 additional cost for pure 91 to yield the same e10 it normally runs with no problem. (no pure 87 available)

Second experience with Ethanol this year - this time in my Pontoon with '88 Force 50hp ob.
Blowing through fuel early in the season so I started using discounted grocery store points fuel instead of pure 91 with treatment added that I have used for several years after finding my boats ran better than on e10 without treatment.
July til mid August I only burned 1 of 3, 6 gal tanks that I had filled at the same time as our car. Car ran fine, first tank ran ok but seemed a little weak in retrospect, had problems into the second tank.
Pic shows the fuel and water after I siphoned both tanks into large pickle jars.
Jar on left - tank 2 that sat on water next to first tank. Fully phase separated, with clear fuel layer and greater water on bottom.
Jar on right - tank 3, sat for first 4 weeks in storage shed then boat for 2 weeks. Fuel is cloudy, partially phase separated but engine was still picking up water layer and would not run.

For fun, I purged the bad fuel from line and filter and it fired right up on new, pure fuel.
Then tried to run the engine on the skimmed phase separated tank 2; engine died when the old fuel hit it and would not run.
Purged the old fuel, hooked up skimmed tank 3 fuel - engine ran but didn't like it.
Mixed the 7 total gallons of bad fuel with 5 gallons of pure 91 and it ran normal.
Lesson learned and pics to prove it :helmet:

Honestly what I suspect occurred is - fuel was partially contaminated at purchase. Not enough to cause a problem if consumed immediately but allowed to sit over 6 weeks in partial humidity (breather caps closed) enough additional water was absorbed to cause phase separation.
Also for fun, the separated ethanol/water mixture does still burn when lit :evilb:


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...psaf9e5c4c.jpg

Do you happen to know what your buddie ended up putting down? I also have a V, and wondering if its worth the tune. Sean had his SRT-8 300C tuned and picked up 53 RWHP with only high flow cats, cat back and the tune.

He put down 500 with just mufflers removed on MAP's dyno, with a lingenfelter gt-9 cam and a 2.4 upper pulley, springs, push rods etc only gained 30whp on db's first tune, went back I think he said its about 570 now but it's should be more like 620. All those numbers are at MAP's dyno DB's dyno dynamics reads lower.

Diesels will do that too, thats why they have fuel water separators, also most times some "HEET" in the yellow bottle will help. (Its just methanol, but it mixes with water)

It is my understanding after researching, Heet will not appreciably recombine the fuels once phase separation occurs.
As a first attempt, before siphoning, I added half a bottle to each tank hoping I could get one to start. From my experience above, no effect. Heet is 91% isopropyl alcohol.
MDR does sell a E-Zorb that claims to emulsify phase separated fuel at a 1-1 product to liquid ratio. This is pretty expensive at $19 for 16oz given my situation of ease of draining. Might be different if I was at sea.

Diesel does not phase separate, it suspends water. I have a Duramax. Not trusting the OEM filter after reading horror stories of gelled or contaminated fuel leaving them dead on the road or weak lift pumps throwing codes after tuning; I installed a FASS water/air/fuel filter on it new. Tapping the primary filter/water separator every 6 months for 5 years yielded at most a clean 1/2 tsp of water.
After the gas incident, I decided it was also time to check the diesel (spring and fall normally).

Pic shows all the water and crap I drained! Same large pickle jar as the gas samples.
Since the filters are so large, they caught an held all the contaminates so I cant pin point what station was the problem. (I filled at 3 regularly but obviously others when traveling). Had FASS not been there, I am sure the bad fuel would have shut me down and I would have known where it came from.
Given the high particulate contamination, I likely broke the cardinal rule of fueling while tanker was reloading or directly after.

Combining both incidents, I took my findings to the likely station and now only fill at two stations regularly :)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...psdece5592.jpg

Red bottle is iso propyl yellow is 99% methanol. http://complyplus.grainger.com/grain...d=2986281#sec1. But good info.

If you need ethanol-free gas, check www.pure-gas.org. I've had ethanol-related issues with older lawnmowers, leaf blowers, etc., but not with cars or boats. So far...